Which RZ2 should we buy?

[91Terminator]

I see what you are saying but bringing in the boat for servicing is still bringing the customer back into the shop. Warranty work or normal maintenance can be done there and the dealership still gets the money.

I agree with Dom, have one standard rate across the board for the boat and each and every extra that gets put into the boat. The dealers can't go below that amount and would keep people within the dealership's sales area.

Wet Sounds Does it. Mac Does it.

You as consumers are much better off the way it is. How many of you own a Mac? They are twice as much thats a fact, and you cant get one for less. So do you really want your Tige's to be a set price?

[Fiveflat]

i would refuse to warranty tool box because that customer doesn't care weather or not i survive and his broken tool box isn't my problem. why should i care about him or her when they don't care about me until it's convinent for them [when THEY need service].

If you priced yourself out of the market, why should anyone care if you survive? (didn't mean that come out harse or anything, but that's just my opinion).
Why should you care about a broken snapon tool box though? Maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong and if I am wrong, I'm sure Tige, MC, Ford, GM are not this way at all. But is it SnapOn's warranty or is it YOUR warranty?
If it's snapon's then you as a dealer have an obligation to uphold the manf. stated warranty, no?

[Fiveflat]

Wet Sounds Does it. Mac Does it.

You as consumers are much better off the way it is. How many of you own a Mac? They are twice as much thats a fact, and you cant get one for less. So do you really want your Tige's to be a set price?

And when that happens is it really still free enterprise? You think any dealerships are "loyal" internet customers when buying shelf stock parts in this same situation?

[robert theisen]

if the customer was my customer[protected territories]and he priced a toolbox from me but bought it from another dealer i wouldn't warranty it. snap-on would back me up and make selling dealer or other dealer warranty it because #1 priotity is protected territory.i've never had this happen in 24 years so i must be fair businessman. just throwing out an opinion.everyone has one but most people just agree to disagree.

[robert theisen]

as far as the price thing snap-on has a suggested retail price which 99% of the dealers use. the ones that don't don't usually last to long. customers will buy elsewere. the same is true for my competitors. i've had 7 matco dealers 3 cormwell dealers and 4 mac dealers come and go during my 24 years in business.all service related failures, since we have small territories you have to keep high percentage of customers happy.one of the main things i do is give every potential and current customer a catalog and official price list.this creates trust. they know before they buy what the price is.

[chpthril]

To my knowledge, Tige doesn't "hide" their MSRP pricing, they just dont publish it on their website. IMO, this is because Tige doesnt sell boats, their dealers do. They want the potential customers to contact their local dealer and begin building a relationship. I deal with supplier territories all day long. They are there to benefit both the customer and dealer. It's also needed to protect the brand value.

Look at it this way.....If you bought your boat at near dealer cost from a dealer who sold out of his area all the time, you thought you got a deal, but what if every one on your lake bought their boat from this same dealer for the same deep discount price! Then despite the "great" price you got, your boat didn't hold much value. believe, I have seen this.....2 year old boats worth diddly because of what the current dealer is selling new ones for.

Not taking side, just sharing some thoughts from my time on both sides of the fence.

You also can not in any way, compare the auto and boat biz. Ive been in both and they are totally different.

[91Terminator]

And when that happens is it really still free enterprise? You think any dealerships are "loyal" internet customers when buying shelf stock parts in this same situation?

Well we arent forced to buy only mac and wet sounds are we? You can go out and by a Dell or HP All day for a lot less, but who has less problems? Who has better customer service? You get what you are willing to pay for. I have had my macbook for going on 2 1/2 years and have not had any problems. I have a dell Desktop and have had to restore it 5 times now... i dont use it anymore.

As for the second part of your comment i am a bit confused but all i know is that Best Buy and Mac is about the Only places you can get one and you sure arent going to get one for less any where else in the world.

[dom w. forte]

The cost of doing bussiness per area or dealer, im sure will vary and this could be some of the issue, you have to make x amount to keep your doors open .
A dealer going out of bussiness could have a fire sale and a local couldnt compete with that kind of priceing.
We have dealt with customers who have purchased boats from other dealers and didnt receive options that were promised and then felt it was our responsebilty or factorys to take care of the issue.
We have had boats that their warranty papers were never sent in and they didnt know it until they needed warranty.
Who needs to be responsible for these issues, IMO the selling dealer, and buyer, the factorys shouldnt have to pay us to do the other dealers job, in the mean time who is unhappy the new owner.
Im not blameing any buyer for this problem , im blameing the dealers that dont abide by the rules.
Ive had buyers give us a bogus address to try and get a boat from us , and when we find out , we refer them to local dealer.
I dont know what the answer is but alot more dealers are going to close their doors if it continues and a lot of top notch dealers have closed because of it and thats the bad part.

[Nobody]

Id go with option #1
1) 2010 RZ2 (surf ballast, pcm 409, bimini, racks). Not local. $64K

-Bimini is a must!
-New year model = better resale
-Touch screen would be a cool toy, since all boat are just "toys"
-PCM 409, I love mine! never burn more than 25 gallons a day, also has coil packs instead of the old bat wing distributor that will collect moisture eventually.

I totally agree with RickD3508! But then I totally agree with Dom Forte. If your local dealer is anything like Forte, you'd be a fool to save a few thousand cause you'll spend it on hassles, issues and greif.

[robert theisen]

were supposed to see pictures today of the new rz2.hope everything went well.

[Ewok]

The cost of doing bussiness per area or dealer, im sure will vary and this could be some of the issue, you have to make x amount to keep your doors open .

Agreed, it would be tricky for Tige to price boats to help dealers turn a profit across the different markets in the US.

Im not blameing any buyer for this problem , im blameing the dealers that dont abide by the rules.
Ive had buyers give us a bogus address to try and get a boat from us , and when we find out , we refer them to local dealer.
I dont know what the answer is but alot more dealers are going to close their doors if it continues and a lot of top notch dealers have closed because of it and thats the bad part.

Agreed. WIth the new warranty and service program Tige introduced for 2011 boats, this seems like the next MAJOR hurdle to deliver on that promise. There has to be some dealer meetings where the Tige sales management and dealers try to brainstorm ways to keep dealers afloat. Bring this idea up at the next meeting:

It appears the current territories strategy is not working if good dealers are going out of business or losing their franchises. It seems like some sort of dealer trade or brokering could and should happen among dealers to sell boats to customers who want them in or out of their territory. There could be some sort of profit sharing with 60/40 between the dealer with the boat and the dealer who sells the boat or something like that. A national or at least regional inventory of boats could be available to give customers the most visibility on what is available and at what price. This strategy could help keep the good dealers afloat and help to keep everyone on an even keel so there is not cut-throat competition deep-sixing other dealers.

[talltigeguy]

One of the problems I see here is the complaint that boat dealers want to sell boats and must see the service as a second rate business. I know Tige hammers the dealers to some degree on warranty work rates, and it appears that they make it so that the dealer doesn't even want to do it. That seems good for Tige and bad for customers. If I bought a boat elsewhere, and then took it to Dom to get warranty work, it is sad that he feels like he wouldn't want to do it, if I were in his territory the whole time. This topic has come up before, and Dom takes the same position.

Most shop rates are in the neighborhood of over $100 per hour, and then they charge more for the parts than they actually paid as well. Why is it that someone would turn down labor for the shop? I know little about the details of the overhead in the shop, but the obvious answer is that the shop makes less than the sales do. How that occurs with the shop rates is beyond me, but I am sure some people ask that about my office as a doctor as well.

[hycosurf]

I ordered my Tige from the dealershp and so picked out all options and colors. If I was looking for a boat and in this case the different size engine of the boats, The dealers I think would need to work out some type of trade to get the boat that fits the description of what the buyer wants. If the local dealer does not have it it seems unfair to the buyer to choose the boat of their choice. I am not even refering to price matching, just getting the color and options that you want on the boat.

[dom w. forte]

One of the problems I see here is the complaint that boat dealers want to sell boats and must see the service as a second rate business. I know Tige hammers the dealers to some degree on warranty work rates, and it appears that they make it so that the dealer doesn't even want to do it. That seems good for Tige and bad for customers. If I bought a boat elsewhere, and then took it to Dom to get warranty work, it is sad that he feels like he wouldn't want to do it, if I were in his territory the whole time. This topic has come up before, and Dom takes the same position.

Most shop rates are in the neighborhood of over $100 per hour, and then they charge more for the parts than they actually paid as well. Why is it that someone would turn down labor for the shop? I know little about the details of the overhead in the shop, but the obvious answer is that the shop makes less than the sales do. How that occurs with the shop rates is beyond me, but I am sure some people ask that about my office as a doctor as well.

Tige doesnt cut anybodys labor rate , only requires that your dealership is up todate on training to receive their rate.
No money is made in any service facilty on labor, you have to make your money to operate on labor and parts, we have enviroment fees, training, electronic test equipment updates, etc.
Warranty work doesnt cover cost of doing bussiness, its labor only, the sale of the boats , with all the incentives is what keeps the doors open.
As a doctor I would think you adjust your charges based on what it takes to pay staff and keep your doors open, I dont think you sell any products just service, if we adjusted our service fees to cover for lost boat sales nobody would come because the fees would be to high.
We our one of the lowest priced service departments in the bay area, because we want to make boating affordable and as fair as possible and we have a good custormer base.
We had a lead where we did all the ground work, demoed him and family, went over all the features, he said he was going to shop on line for a Tige, I said if you find a boat you like just let me know and we can invoice that boat to our inventory plus what ever additional cost shipping etc., so as to get the credit for sale, he ended up buying a Tige from out of my terretory, had a problem with the alternatoron his first outting, calls me on a sunday , and wanted me to come out and check it out because its a new boat and the battery is dead, this is the first I know of the purchase, so I told him to call his selling dealer to address the problem, does that sound unreasonble?

[Ewok]

If he had bought the boat from your dealership you would have gone to where his boat is and tried to diagnose the problem? On a Sunday? Is that standard dealer service? If so I have been totally hosed by my dealer. I had a problem like that. Did final on water test and paid for boat on a Wed. Stayed overnight at hotel next to dealer. Picked the boat up on Thursday, drove home 7 hours (1 of 2 dealers the same distance from my house). Went to wash road grime from boat on Friday and discovered battery switches were left on and house battery was drained. Hooked it up to a charger but wouldn't charge up above 70% overnight. Called dealer service dept on sat morning @ 1100 ish to explain problem and find out how and where to get new battery. Took it to an interstate battery dealer in town but they didn't have the same size battery. I called dealer again to work out some type of credit or something to get me a working battery for the weekend. They closed at 1400 and never called me back that Saturday, nor on Tues when they opened. They never called me back about the issue again. On that Saturday I just bought a new battery to get out on the water and figured it was the price of getting a good deal on a leftover boat.

My question is, was my experience typical or did I get hosed. Are all dealer service departments similar to Doms?