Which RZ2 should we buy?

[da.bell]

Unfortunately my dealer says no. I already asked...

I am going to say on that since the new models are 2011 and the dealers are authorized to sell outside their districts with models before 2011.

I think your dealer isn't telling you the entire truth.

[da.bell]

All...awesome responses and feedback. Thank you! Especially on the PCM 409. We have been very upfront with our dealer on budget and other boats we have been considering. We have always wanted to buy locally but simply cannot justify. Pick up is scheduled for Tuesday. I will send pictures of our new 'baby' once we have it.

If anyone needs guidance or feedback on pricing, features, etc...between a Centurion, Tige, and Nautique feel free to send me a message. This has been a 6-month ordeal for us and we are very excited about the new boat.

congrats and welcome to the Tige Family!!!

[91Terminator]

We tried to convince our local dealer to do a dealer transfer and they will not. Was pretty bummed by that. We have been VERY open with our local dealer on budget, etc... His 2010 is for sale for $74K with same options. That is one of the reasons why I feel like it may be OK for us to by 'out of territory'.

You wont find a 2010 equally equipped for much less. Just save the hassle and trouble and buy the local 2010 and get out on the water.

[91Terminator]

I am going to say on that since the new models are 2011 and the dealers are authorized to sell outside their districts with models before 2011.

I think your dealer isn't telling you the entire truth.

I am not authorized to sell any of my boats out of territory, Tige and most all Manufactures are all tightening up on out of territory sales. There are big penalties these days.

The buyer in the situation needs to understand that #1 there is not going to much better pricing on 2010's anywhere else. #2 Even if there is better pricing the dealer can not sell it to him. #3 If he would just go to his local dealer and work on some numbers with them i am sure that a deal could strike up. #4 If the 2010 is to far out of this buyers budget he will need to buy a used boat, or try to get a 2009 through his dealer.

The sad thing is that all the consumers think that its ok to buy out of territory leftovers to get "deals". But then when there local dealer is not around or in existence anymore for service and warranty because they purchased out of territory leftovers, then they all get a bit angry. But who is to blame? Not Tige Not the dealers.

[Ewok]

I am not authorized to sell any of my boats out of territory, Tige and most all Manufactures are all tightening up on out of territory sales. There are big penalties these days.

The buyer in the situation needs to understand that #1 there is not going to much better pricing on 2010's anywhere else. #2 Even if there is better pricing the dealer can not sell it to him. #3 If he would just go to his local dealer and work on some numbers with them i am sure that a deal could strike up. #4 If the 2010 is to far out of this buyers budget he will need to buy a used boat, or try to get a 2009 through his dealer.

The sad thing is that all the consumers think that its ok to buy out of territory leftovers to get "deals". But then when there local dealer is not around or in existence anymore for service and warranty because they purchased out of territory leftovers, then they all get a bit angry. But who is to blame? Not Tige Not the dealers.

I understand what you are saying. The major problem with this legacy sales model is that info on the internet and a lack of info from dealers pits the consumer against the dealer. Why do dealers and the boat manufacturers hide the prices of the boats? Even car manufacturers who use the dealer network model price MSRP on their websites but very few if any boat manufacturers do the same. I know that if you have to ask you can't afford it, and I honestly had the most hassle free and enjoyable boat buying experience with my RZ2. But if the fair price for the boat is difficult or impossible to find, you won't know how much you need to save up to buy your dream boat. You might think it's way too expensive and never even try to buy a nice new boat. And you also don't have a good gauge for how well or poorly the boats hold their value over time if it's a WAG to figure out the starting price.

I'm just thinking out loud here, that the hidden cost to the dealer and the haggle/negotiation for the price cannot last in this information age and hopefully Tige listens to us or gets ahead of the change and gets we the consumer the fair price.

[dom w. forte]

There is a multitude of reasons for different pricing , the state in which sold could be economically down, to many boats in inventory, and a big one could be a dealership that doesnt have highly trained techs and or poor service doesnt have to make as much to operate, the dealer network has gotten smaller because the sales have not been able to sustain the cost of doing bussiness.
As a dealer we have to up grade our equipment every year, send our techs out for training, purchase the latest shop manuals, tools, inorder to give the best possible customer service.
When we sell a boat there are several parts to the sale, profit, market shares, volume discounts, and above all CSI , all is lost when purchased out of our territory and servicing a boat out of our territory wont make up for those losses, nor does it registor on our CSI.
So im just trying to give you a picture of why a local dealer might be a different price, we fought this in our territory our dealership has had some of the highest CSI for several years and our other same brand dealer would under cut us and the consumer wanted us to work on their boat because of are reputation, we refused because we would not be able to maintain our reputation with out the sales , the other dealer has since gone out of bussinees , custormer service was a contributing factor.
I hope this gives a better understanding, we are not trying to become rich just , just want to be the best dealer and sell ther best product , remeber you are not buying a boat, your buying a dealership.

[houstonshark]

...the consumer wanted us to work on their boat because of are reputation, we refused because we would not be able to maintain our reputation with out the sales , the other dealer has since gone out of bussinees , custormer service was a contributing factor.
I hope this gives a better understanding, we are not trying to become rich just , just want to be the best dealer and sell ther best product , remeber you are not buying a boat, your buying a dealership.

Wow! That sounds like pretty poor customer service to me! Customer service has many sides to it and pricing is one. I agree that you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere and refuse to get into a bidding war with another dealer. I can also see wanting to make a min. of X dollars or %, but it's the way dealers handle boat pricing (all the secret handshakes and whispering prices in the corner to try and make you feel like you got a great deal only to find out the next person got a better deal) that forces buyers to shop around and buy based on price.

I think you would find that providing superior customer service and repair service (which are different) you would win back some of those customers who didn't buy from you, not to mention their referrals!

Now you feel like you won because the other dealer closed down and you've maybe seen a little boost in business. The reality is that you haven't. I'm sure many of those customers you turned away and many who bought from the other dealership have moved onto other boat manufacturers.

And I'm sorry but to tell me (or ask me to remeber) that I'm not buying a boat, I'm buying a dealership is just silly. I'm buying a boat and I'm buying a brand ultimately. Yes the dealership makes a difference but you put it like you are holding me hostage, but then again maybe you are until a fixed pricing model is announced.

[Ewok]

Wow, I didn't know dealers & service departments could refuse warranty work on boats just because it was bought from another dealer. In my job I move around alot (every 3 years or so), and by this method I am basically screwed when I move and need to get my boat serviced by another dealer who I did not buy the boat from? One of the major reasons I bought my boat is because there is a Tige dealer close to my new house. If I knew dealers could refuse service like this I suspect when I take my boat in for service I will get treated like a second class citizen because I didn't buy it from them. I also wonder now if my last trip to the service department at THE DEALER I BOUGHT THE BOAT FROM took their sweet *** time (3weeks) to do the 25 hr service and a little punch list I had because they knew I was moving to WA and wouldn't get the boat serviced there again. I seriously would NOT have bought a Tige if I knew this was possible.

This really is a broken process. Dom, I know you are surviving, probably doing well playing by the rules right now but this does not seem like a long term strategy for the growth of the brand. One would think all the dealers around the country would try to help each other to grow the reputation of the brand and not worry so much about their little kingdoms (or territories). I know Dom didn't invent the rules he has to play with so I guess it's up to Tige to re-write the rules and come up with a new strategy to grow the brand and benefit the consumers and the dealers at the same time. I'm not holding my breath for it but I am looking forward to it.

[dom w. forte]

I am not holding anyone hostage to buy a boat, and im sorry you percevie it that way, anybody on this sight who knows me , knows I help out everybody with their issues at no charge , nor do I ask for any, but as a dealer what makes you think if a customer doesnt buy from me the first time he intends to buy from me the next time, we charge the fairest prices we can but have to make are percentages to survive and if we dont, it wont be an issue because we wont be around to do their work anyway.
I cant speak for other dealer tactics, we dont play any games in sales and you could ask anyone who has bought a boat from us and all those who have converted because us, we treat everybody like family because we have a passion for the sport and the boats.
I dont think its anymore reasonable to be held hostage by the consumer that I have to do their warranty work when they stab us in the back on a boat buy.
As far as a customer moving into are area ,is a tottally different matter, we would never turn them away because they didnt go and under cut us to get a perceived better deal.

[Ewok]

Dom,

As you know I am relatively new to the site and Tige boats but from my short experience you have always been honest, fair and extremely helpful to everyone on this site. I believe the way you operate your business is fair under the current rules and dealer structure and I know boats are toys and not a necessity.

I love boats, grew up on them and I will continue to buy and be on boats for the rest of my life. I have shared many great experiences with other families who don't have boats and get discouraged when they try to do some research and comparison shopping online just like you would from a car to make sure they don't spend more money than they have to (not get screwed). So many posts here are asking what is a good deal on a boat because there is little info available from the manufacturer and the dealers. Unfortunately or not, dealers in general have been lumped into the category of car dealers who earned a reputation by screwing many customers throughout the years. From my limited knowledge of dealer territories and claims of penalties from this site, I have surmised that the current dealer network is a broken system that pits dealers against the customer so they don't "canabolize" each others sales. I have been to your website and read your posts and believe that I would get good service from your technicians. I know too well that you get what you pay for and understand that a dealer in the next state might not provide the same level of service in order to sell boats at a lesser price. My biggest complaint about the entire system is why aren't dealers held to the same high level of technical expertise and customer service? Why are other dealers allowed to have less quality work than you provide? Again, as someone who moves alot, that scares me too that the quality of the dealers is not standard and it's a hit or miss scenario whenever I take my boat in for service. My beef is not with you, my beef is with the system that allows dealers to come and go with minimal levels of service.

[dom w. forte]

The manufacturers do insist on the best possible service and we are rewarded with incentives with our CSI , but as with any bussiness it is always difficult to get good quality employees.
The only other way for the manufacturer to solve the problem would be price fixing, which is put a bottom line that nobody could sell below.

[da.bell]

Unfortunately my dealer says no. I already asked...

I am going to say on that since the new models are 2011 and the dealers are authorized to sell outside their districts with models before 2011.

I think your dealer isn't telling you the entire truth.

I am not authorized to sell any of my boats out of territory, Tige and most all Manufactures are all tightening up on out of territory sales. There are big penalties these days.

The buyer in the situation needs to understand that #1 there is not going to much better pricing on 2010's anywhere else. #2 Even if there is better pricing the dealer can not sell it to him. #3 If he would just go to his local dealer and work on some numbers with them i am sure that a deal could strike up. #4 If the 2010 is to far out of this buyers budget he will need to buy a used boat, or try to get a 2009 through his dealer.

The sad thing is that all the consumers think that its ok to buy out of territory leftovers to get "deals". But then when there local dealer is not around or in existence anymore for service and warranty because they purchased out of territory leftovers, then they all get a bit angry. But who is to blame? Not Tige Not the dealers.

Ops, I miss read the post. The 2011 warranties will not apply to the 2010 models. I somehow read that Tige wouldn't warranty the boat if bought outside their territory.

Sorry for the confusion.

[robert theisen]

to help out on the service end of this let me explain.i'm a snap -on tool dealer so i go to alot of service departments at a lot of dealerships. all that i go to are car or motorcycle dealerships.i have been in business for myself for 24 years. i warranty tools that customers bought from other dealers no problem. but if someone priced a toolbox from me and bought it from another dealer all i would have to do is call snap-on and they would reverse the sale so i would make the money and other dealer would eat crow.but if i was in the same situation as tige dealers where customers are allowed to buy anywere i would refuse to warranty tool box because that customer doesn't care weather or not i survive and his broken tool box isn't my problem. why should i care about him or her when they don't care about me until it's convinent for them [when THEY need service].i understand all sides to the story and i would do as other dealer mentioned take care of customer who bought from other dealer in other territory then moved into mine.as you can see i to don't want to take care of a customer who cares nothing about weather or not i'm in business to take care of him in the future. but i'm all about doing everything in my power to help a customer who helps me or has the ability to help me in the future. if the customer isn't going to support his dealer won't be around to help him in the future.

[Ewok]

to help out on the service end of this let me explain.i'm a snap -on tool dealer so i go to alot of service departments at a lot of dealerships. all that i go to are car or motorcycle dealerships.i have been in business for myself for 24 years. i warranty tools that customers bought from other dealers no problem. but if someone priced a toolbox from me and bought it from another dealer all i would have to do is call snap-on and they would reverse the sale so i would make the money and other dealer would eat crow.but if i was in the same situation as tige dealers where customers are allowed to buy anywere i would refuse to warranty tool box because that customer doesn't care weather or not i survive and his broken tool box isn't my problem. why should i care about him or her when they don't care about me until it's convinent for them [when THEY need service].i understand all sides to the story and i would do as other dealer mentioned take care of customer who bought from other dealer in other territory then moved into mine.as you can see i to don't want to take care of a customer who cares nothing about weather or not i'm in business to take care of him in the future. but i'm all about doing everything in my power to help a customer who helps me or has the ability to help me in the future. if the customer isn't going to support his dealer won't be around to help him in the future.

I understand your point. I guess I look at the situation from a country wide perspective versus a local perspective. As stated before I travel alot and I have moved from PA to MS to OK to ND to GA to TX in the last 12 years and I'm getting ready to move to WA. When I buy a product from a company that sells that product across the country I expect the same level of service everywhere I go. I know from personal experience that is not the case. I am all about helping out the local economy and I go out of my way to buy products from my local skate/surf/board shop vs going to walmart or ordering on-line. I guess I didn't understand that warranty work for a product sold nationwide could hurt a dealer. I was under the impression that warranty work was paid by the corporate office, not from the local dealer, and it shouldn't matter what dealer does the work, they all get paid anyway. That is why I was surprised that Dom said he would't do work for someone who got a better deal down the road. I guess I was totally wrong on that assumption.

Dom said "The manufacturers do insist on the best possible service and we are rewarded with incentives with our CSI , but as with any bussiness it is always difficult to get good quality employees."
- Thanks, good to know.

Dom said "The only other way for the manufacturer to solve the problem would be price fixing, which is put a bottom line that nobody could sell below."
- Yes, the new Tige warranty and service plan is a good step to help out new boat owners, I think they would do well to be the first to set the price for their product, similar to Saturn but with a much better product. Consumers still feel like they get taken by the dealer even if they tell everyone they got a good deal, because it's usually impossible to determine if you have "really" gotten a good deal, especially with boats.

Sorry to keep hijacking this thread. We should move this discussion to a new thread in off topics?

[da.bell]

to help out on the service end of this let me explain.i'm a snap -on tool dealer so i go to alot of service departments at a lot of dealerships. all that i go to are car or motorcycle dealerships.i have been in business for myself for 24 years. i warranty tools that customers bought from other dealers no problem. but if someone priced a toolbox from me and bought it from another dealer all i would have to do is call snap-on and they would reverse the sale so i would make the money and other dealer would eat crow.but if i was in the same situation as tige dealers where customers are allowed to buy anywere i would refuse to warranty tool box because that customer doesn't care weather or not i survive and his broken tool box isn't my problem. why should i care about him or her when they don't care about me until it's convinent for them [when THEY need service].i understand all sides to the story and i would do as other dealer mentioned take care of customer who bought from other dealer in other territory then moved into mine.as you can see i to don't want to take care of a customer who cares nothing about weather or not i'm in business to take care of him in the future. but i'm all about doing everything in my power to help a customer who helps me or has the ability to help me in the future. if the customer isn't going to support his dealer won't be around to help him in the future.

I see what you are saying but bringing in the boat for servicing is still bringing the customer back into the shop. Warranty work or normal maintenance can be done there and the dealership still gets the money.

I agree with Dom, have one standard rate across the board for the boat and each and every extra that gets put into the boat. The dealers can't go below that amount and would keep people within the dealership's sales area.