Tige rz4 vs. Malibu lsv

[chpthril]

Hey guys I am new to the forum. My RZ4 rocks!!!! Fill up the surf balast and add a few friends and the wake goes for ever.

Any update on the larger sacks ? Can't always friends when we want to surf so some extra balast would be great !!!

We have re-spun the sacs and Fly High is working on the them as we speak. We are hoping to have them in Ragboy's boat by the first of the month. From there, he will give them a workout and then we will make any further adjustments that may need to be made.

For a 24Ve or RZ4 with out the Surf or Pro Ballast option, the Enzo is still the way to go IMO.

[dom w. forte]

That wake is awesome, I get close to that with my Ve, but it isn't that clean and long. Wish I was surfing that wake. I like that Enzo by Centurion. It is a awesome boat. Someone had commented that the quality was in a lower leauge, not so sure about that, I've ridden on one and looked at them extensively, it is a very nice boat, a nice step up from some of their other models.

Anyway, as far as your question between the two boats, both of them will require you to add ballast for a good surf wake.

We get to work on them , they are no where comparable to a tige or bu, and dont even come close in drivabilty, enough said.

[IDBoating]

For a 24Ve or RZ4 with out the Surf or Pro Ballast option, the Enzo is still the way to go IMO.

I should have a 2009 24Ve within a couple of weeks, and one of its primary responsibilities will be wakesurfing. This unit has no factory ballast at all. It sounds like you recommend the Enzo sac. Can the boat accommodate two of them, one on each side, so we can surf on either side?

Thanks!

[ragboy]

All of the videos on wake9.com before august of this year, are from our 2007 24Ve, that had no ballast. We installed our own, and 2 custom sacs.

[chpthril]

I should have a 2009 24Ve within a couple of weeks, and one of its primary responsibilities will be wakesurfing. This unit has no factory ballast at all. It sounds like you recommend the Enzo sac. Can the boat accommodate two of them, one on each side, so we can surf on either side?

Thanks!

Sure! But, I would just be cautious if you plan on filling both and surfing both sides at once.

[IDBoating]

Sure! But, I would just be cautious if you plan on filling both and surfing both sides at once.

I doubt we'll do that. We might partially fill them to enhance wakeboarding, but for surfing I think it will be one side at a time.

What I didn't know is if an Enzo sac can be put on BOTH sides of a 2009 24Ve. Sometimes the storage/ballast areas aren't symmetrical, and what will fit on one side won't fit on the other. I take it from your comment that an Enzo will fit on either side.

Does the 24Ve typically require front ballast too, or is the additional length enough to push the weight of the bow far enough forward that nothing is required up front?

[chpthril]

I doubt we'll do that. We might partially fill them to enhance wakeboarding, but for surfing I think it will be one side at a time.

What I didn't know is if an Enzo sac can be put on BOTH sides of a 2009 24Ve. Sometimes the storage/ballast areas aren't symmetrical, and what will fit on one side won't fit on the other. I take it from your comment that an Enzo will fit on either side.

Does the 24Ve typically require front ballast too, or is the additional length enough to push the weight of the bow far enough forward that nothing is required up front?

Yes, the Enzo, or any other "L" shaped surf sac, can be placed in either side of the 22 and 24 ft Tiges. The new Z1's have a, what looks like anyway, false bulkhead in place that divides the storage locker form the under-seat cavity. next time I get close to one, I will look closer to see if it is indeed a false wall and can be removed. Now, there are some minor differences between the port and starboard sides, but mainly the total length of the storage. This = a little less weight on the starboard side as compared to the port. Not much and I doubt it's even 100lbs. Most drivers would make up that difference. On the 20V's, the batteries are kinda placed in the path of an "L" shaped sac, so a large rectangle sac like the W707 or the W719 Jumbo would be the way to go unless someone wanted to do some major rework.

For wake boarding, yes, front ballast is needed IMO. For surfing, it's up to the rider and their skills and goals. Adding front ballast will typically add length to the pocket, but takes away from the wave height and push. For an accomplished rider on a good board, this is not a hindrance.

[IDBoating]

Yes, the Enzo, or any other "L" shaped surf sac, can be placed in either side of the 22 and 24 ft Tiges.

OK, that's clear, thanks.

For wake boarding, yes, front ballast is needed IMO.

My expectation is that the wakes we get from the standard hull + TAPS will be sufficient for our skill levels for a while.

For surfing, it's up to the rider and their skills and goals. Adding front ballast will typically add length to the pocket, but takes away from the wave height and push. For an accomplished rider on a good board, this is not a hindrance.

Do you find that the bow ballast needs to be separate left to right, or does a single large centered bag suffice?

[chpthril]

OK, that's clear, thanks.

And to add to that, Up to 2010, the Z1's are wide open and should be able to handle an "L" shaped surf sac.

My expectation is that the wakes we get from the standard hull + TAPS will be sufficient for our skill levels for a while.

Most find this to be the case for a season or two, the as the skills go up, the rider wants a bigger wake and ballast is needed. Once you start to add ballast for wakeboarding, you will find that the Tige V-drives like bow weight. 50/50 at a minimum, 60/40 front/rear split seems to be the best.

Do you find that the bow ballast needs to be separate left to right, or does a single large centered bag suffice?

At this point, no, but I want to test this theory. Is 400 lbs spread across the bow better/worse then the same 400 lbs along the bow wall on the surf side???? Dunno yet. My gut tells me that with the typical boat, there will be no real advantage to having bow weigh split. I feel that the stern weight gets the boat listed over, but having centrally placed bow weight gets more hull wet and adds to the wave rather then listing the boat in the bow would. again, something that I want to test, but i'm missing one huge piece of the puzzle right now

[murphini]

Chpthril set me up with Enzo sacs for our 07 24ve.

For surfing have one Enzo sac on each side. The surf wake is great on either side. Only downside is they are big it takes a while to fill/empty but worth the hassle. A full enzo sac with a bunch of people on your 24ve and you'll throw a huge wake.

For wakeboarding, we generally use TAPS only. We are not doing massive tricks/flips etc, so the TAPS wake is fine for my kids, and still imposing enough for me that I usually have TAPS set at 4. If you get really good, you may want more ballast, but you should be fine for now. I like just setting and forgetting TAPS rather than also filling ballast for Wakeboarding.

You learn how you really use the boat & what your ballast needs are over next summer.

[IDBoating]

A full enzo sac with a bunch of people on your 24ve and you'll throw a huge wake.

See, I keep hearing "a bunch of people". Why not more fat sacs? Our family of three lives on the lake 4-5 months of the year and I'd hate to be dependent upon finding some human ballast to have fun. Sounds like Enzo's are a start, but more is really needed. I'm just hopeful I don't have to put them on the seats... that's one reason I want to put sacs where the factory hardside ballasts would have gone if this boat had them. Another 900 pounds of water is the same as ~6 adults.

[chpthril]

See, I keep hearing "a bunch of people". Why not more fat sacs? Our family of three lives on the lake 4-5 months of the year and I'd hate to be dependent upon finding some human ballast to have fun. Sounds like Enzo's are a start, but more is really needed. I'm just hopeful I don't have to put them on the seats... that's one reason I want to put sacs where the factory hardside ballasts would have gone if this boat had them. Another 900 pounds of water is the same as ~6 adults.

Lets break it down. The 900lb factory ballast is only 250lbs on the surf side. That's equal to one big guy and will be a drop in the bucket to the 1300+ that the Enzo will give you ON THE SURF SIDE

The Tige boats produce some of the best Surf wakes out there, and doing it with less weight then others. It will be awhile before you guys outgrow the wake with the enzo sac.

[IDBoating]

The Tige boats produce some of the best Surf wakes out there, and doing it with less weight then others. It will be awhile before you guys outgrow the wake with the enzo sac.

True, but while I'm designing and installing an automated ballast system I'd like to plan the whole thing. I'd rather tear things apart once and have the system finished than do "just enough" now and have to tear it all apart again in a year or two.

Hence my advanced questions from a newbie....

[talltigeguy]

The Tige boats produce some of the best Surf wakes out there, and doing it with less weight then others. It will be awhile before you guys outgrow the wake with the enzo sac.

Agreed.

True, but while I'm designing and installing an automated ballast system I'd like to plan the whole thing. I'd rather tear things apart once and have the system finished than do "just enough" now and have to tear it all apart again in a year or two.

Hence my advanced questions from a newbie....

Going bigger than an Enzo sac is pretty well impossible. Your storage compartment is almost full of water at that point. Your next option is lead, or pump sacks and put them on the seats. I carried 300 pounds of lead bricks for a while in my 2002 Tige.

[chpthril]

True, but while I'm designing and installing an automated ballast system I'd like to plan the whole thing. I'd rather tear things apart once and have the system finished than do "just enough" now and have to tear it all apart again in a year or two.

Hence my advanced questions from a newbie....

Excluding the small cavity under the floor where the factory hard tank would be on your boat if it came with the factory ballast, there is no way to get more hidden ballast weight on the surf side, with out going to lead. The Enzo will just about fill the entire storage area. The overall length is like 102" and the width is 26".

We have talked about whether or not it's possible to stuff a sac in that cavity or not, but this question will hopefully be answered once I hook up with Dingleberry next week @ Mead.

next question will be......IF a sac can be placed there, is that 250 lbs worth the work and additional plumbing. That I guess would left to answer by those looking to do it. I just hope to provide the answers of can it be done and how best to do it.