Crossed over to ATX, but it has not been the most enjoyable experience.

[talltigeguy]

I agree with IDboating, It is not right, but it happens that many boats come from the factory not quite working right. This is not just an ATX thing. It happens with all brands. I will say that some brands are less than others, as my Nautiques were pretty well perfect, same is true of most of my friends' Nautiques, but not all of them.

The take home message is to do your best whenever you buy a new boat to not immediately take it on a big trip with no dealer access. It for sure is not Oldwakedoc's fault, but this story is not a new one.

[D&P Powell]

I'll stick with a 20 year old boat that works, and that I don't have to take to a dealer to get worked on because the touch screen stops working....

That's a fair statement. and I can respect that view. However for every person like you, there is a person like me that appreciates how far the industry has come with technology and performance improvements.

UNSTUCK - I don't expect any boat I purchase to be perfect, used or new. We are on our 4th. Perhaps you and I just have different perspectives. I also don't think we are all giving boat builders a pass necessarily, as much as we understand these are machines with many different moving parts (literally). I would encourage you to take a tour of the Tige facility (or any other large boat manufacturer for that matter) to see the process. You might walk away with a different perspective. Lastly, I have no doubt they already have plenty of motivation to improve (bottom line, return customers, etc.).

[SONIC]

Seems to be the norm unfortunately.
Buy brand new boat for 100+K and then spend the first season waiting on the dealer to fix the little crap that shouldn't have been wrong to start with.
Lots more to go wrong on these newer boats.

I think all the brands need to slow down a bit and implement better QC at the factory, yes it will cost them some money but what it costs will easily be gained back in reputation IMO. It's a daunting task, just take a look at all the "moving parts" on the new boats. Just looking under the dash will make you dizzy. My gut tells me that the manufacturers weren't / aren't prepared for how quickly these things went from work truck to luxury sports car.

[BrentB]

I have purchased at least 5 new cars in the last 10 years. I have not had a single problem with any one of them (Ford, Acura, Lexus, GMC). Each of them cost about a 1/2 to a 1/3 of a brand new wake boat. Doesn’t a modern automobile have way more moving parts and tech than a modern boat? Is that a fair statement? Maybe it’s not. I don’t know.

[D&P Powell]

I have purchased at least 5 new cars in the last 10 years. I have not had a single problem with any one of them (Ford, Acura, Lexus, GMC). Each of them cost about a 1/2 to a 1/3 of a brand new wake boat. Doesn’t a modern automobile have way more moving parts and tech than a modern boat? Is that a fair statement? Maybe it’s not. I don’t know.

Look at the manufacturing process for cars, and the manufacturers process for boats. In my opinion, you are comparing apples to socket wrenches.

[SONIC]

I have purchased at least 5 new cars in the last 10 years. I have not had a single problem with any one of them (Ford, Acura, Lexus, GMC). Each of them cost about a 1/2 to a 1/3 of a brand new wake boat. Doesn’t a modern automobile have way more moving parts and tech than a modern boat? Is that a fair statement? Maybe it’s not. I don’t know.

The volume is different. There are 1000's of cars coming off the line per hour very different from boats.

Also a lot of off the shelf parts when building a boat because they don't have the volume to have every little piece custom made like auto manufacturers.


That being said all of these issue could be fixed with some QC changes IMO.
If the manufacturer needs to add on a 500 dollar testing fee no one would care just build it into the cost of the boat and pay someone to actually check every system, hinge, look at the upholstery etc.

My opinion is they need to up their game, if that costs more money then charge more money because at these price levels people expect a quality product and it sure as **** seems like they aren't getting one. If I need to pay an extra 1000 to not have to take my boat back to the dealer I'm fine with that.

Each trip to the dealer is many thousands of dollars of my time that I'm not going to be compensated for.

[IDBoating]

Maybe dealers can make some extra money selling a "break in" service where your boat gets ~10 hours of detailed run through. You basically buy ten hours of a technician's time to focus exclusively on that one boat, going over everything a seasoned tech can think of and pre-handling any warranty issues for you.

[SONIC]

I'd also be really interested to see what percentage of new boats have warranty claims.
Forums have a way of bringing out only the bad without any of the good. Happy customers don't get on here most of the time.

[IDBoating]

This thread also reminds me of past periods in the history of Harley Davidson. It was once common to buy a new motorcycle together with a gasket kit, then tear down the new engine and replace all the gaskets to get rid of all the factory leaks. The problem was so well known there were bumper stickers making fun of it.

[freeheel4life]

Maybe dealers can make some extra money selling a "break in" service where your boat gets ~10 hours of detailed run through. You basically buy ten hours of a technician's time to focus exclusively on that one boat, going over everything a seasoned tech can think of and pre-handling any warranty issues for you.

Have a customer thats ordering his 3rd Supra in 5 years. He lives 2.5 hours from us. He says next spring he's getting a hotel and putting 20 hours on the boat here and having us do the 20 hour before he hauls it home. Kind of sucks it comes to that but at this point he gets that its just how it goes and would rather that then deal with a 5 hour round trip if something is wrong "out of the box".

[KoolAid]

It's a tough one. It's all volume. Lets say every boat and jet ski was the exact same model (roughly 130k units), the Jeep Wrangler line (450k units) sells over 3 times as many. That's just Jeep compared to the entire marine industry. Its hard to compare autos to boats since the numbers are so much more substantial. The only company close to the numbers of the wake surf industry is Ferrari. They build 10,000 units per year not counting their race car program. Surf boat companies total build about 9,000. That is all of them put together. Least expensive Ferrari starts at $220k with an average cost over those 10,000 units being around $450,000+ each. A coach builder producing around 1,000 units per year, such as Morgan, who has been building basically the same car for 60 years costs around $70k starting out and what you get is a street legal go kart.

[BrentP]

I think the issue is that the dealer mentality is like in many businesses - the model hasn't changed in 50 years even though the market has. Think real estate, cars, etc. Our first boat was $18k, 19' slalom ski boat. Basically a ford 302 strapped into a hull. The moving parts were the motor and the out drive. It was a simpler time. The dealer existed to facilitate the sale and manage the finances. Sure, they fixed issues with the boat, but 90% of it was relegated to knowing how a Volvo Penta and Cobra outdrive worked.

Fast forward to today. The boat is now worth 10x that price, and the motor is the least complicated component on the entire boat! Fluid dynamics, water pumps types, tabs, fins, towers, oh my! A lot of the dealers didn't keep up. Tige has the boat for 2 hours after build to make sure all the parts work. Honestly, they probably all work from the factory. But bad actuators, relays, **** like that happens. (For reference, my Dad has an 2019, $80k super duty that had 6 recalls on it fixed today. It happens in cars too). The issue IMHO is the dealer network hasn't responded. For every Freeheel, there are 15 technicians that are rushed, under trained, inexperienced and/or not thorough. Plus, they probably work on 3 or 4 brands of boats ranging from center consoles to cabin cruisers.

This issue will continue to gain traction until the manufacturers hurt to the point that they hold the dealer network to their commitments of providing a service that's worth the cut they make. I don't know enough about the business - the cut may not be there, the manufacturers may not hurt, I don't know. My question would be - how many people are there on Centurion, Moomba, Supra, Nautique, Axis boards that are making the same exact complaints? Do I get that much better service on a 285k Paragon then I would an 80k ATX? Keep in mind, the Nautique shop sells more boats then the Tige shop since they have 7 other brands...

All of this saying - it's an excuse. If I spend 80k or 200k I expect a luxury level of service. Sorry you are having a bad experience, and I hope it works out. Tige has always taken care of me, and seems like they do a good job in general... But there seems to be some misses here.

[sandm]

I think everyone gets that these are hand built custom toys.
I get that issues happen down the road when tige(or any of them) use different manufacturers parts and issues come up.
where I think some have the issue are brand new boats from the dealer and something doesn't work. my boat had 1 hour on it so someone did something to put that hour on it. should work 100% out of the gate. now after 10 hours relays blow or something malfunctions, that happens and happens in the automotive industry as well.
however from day 1, a new boat should not have any issues if tige and the dealers have done their part.

sonic is on with having a q/c area and guessing tige already has one. questions are what they do and is it a legit job or checking the boxes prior to shipment.

edit- pretty much echo brentp....

[SONIC]

It's a tough one. It's all volume. Lets say every boat and jet ski was the exact same model (roughly 130k units), the Jeep Wrangler line (450k units) sells over 3 times as many. That's just Jeep compared to the entire marine industry. Its hard to compare autos to boats since the numbers are so much more substantial. The only company close to the numbers of the wake surf industry is Ferrari. They build 10,000 units per year not counting their race car program. Surf boat companies total build about 9,000. That is all of them put together. Least expensive Ferrari starts at $220k with an average cost over those 10,000 units being around $450,000+ each. A coach builder producing around 1,000 units per year, such as Morgan, who has been building basically the same car for 60 years costs around $70k starting out and what you get is a street legal go kart.

You're the man who knows better than any of us, I know it sucks to read everyone's bitching and keep a level head lol.

[IDBoating]

KoolAid nailed it. There is a big difference between a full-on assembly line operation cranking out tens of thousands of units, and a low volume operation where every one is essentially hand-built. The latter is going to be more expensive AND more error prone.

Again, I'm not making excuses for anyone. It's just reality. That's why I wondered aloud if there's a market for a post-sale "tech check" where a knowledgeable technician devotes (say) an entire day to one boat, driving it and going through everything. That story about someone renting a hotel room and putting 20 hours on the boat near the dealer suggests to me that there might indeed be a market for such a service.

This isn't exclusive to boats, either. One of my personal indulgences is a Lotus. They make Ferrari look like GM in terms of volume. They're so rare, each one has a signed plaque screwed to the dash that says "Hand Built in Hethel England by" and the signature of The Technician who built YOUR car. With that degree of attention you'd think each one would be perfect, yet the Lotus community has ready-made lists of things to check when looking at new and used Lotus cars. They just don't make enough of them per year to even discover all of the little details. (As a side note, they've been making my particular model for 10+ years now so they're finally getting almost perfect straight from the factory which is one of the reasons I was finally willing to take the chance. How many wakeboats have been in continuous production for 10+ years?)