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    Weak spark?

    ‘06 22ve with pcm 330

    Wife was out with some friends last weekend and it died and won’t start now. Rolls over and tries to start, stumbles a little after I let off the ignition like it’s trying.

    Seems to be an ignition issue. Won’t fire with starter fluid. Fuel pressure is good. Changed cap, rotor, pickup module in distributor, plug wires. Still nothing.
    Pulled plug wires and checked fire. Little to no spark at plug wires. Weak, orange spark at coil wire. So from everything I’ve been reading and everything I’ve checked I thought it had to be coil or ignition module. Changed both and still same symptoms.

    I’ve checked compression. Batteries are charged. 2 batteries on #1 switch. 1 battery on #2. I’ve tried starting on each battery switch setting. Hard wired the kill switch.

    $400 in on this go-around, any ideas before I drop off at the shop?

    #2
    Weak spark out of the coil is going to be a coil issue or a low voltage to the coil issue.
    Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

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      #3
      Checked with multimeter just now. Voltage matches battery (over 12v) with key on. Drags down to 8-10v when cranking. How low should it be able to start on? Only dipped down into high 8’s.

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        #4
        bad or weak crank case hall sensor

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          #5
          KonaKing
          Swapped it out today with one I had on hand that was in working condition. Swapped it previously when I was throwing parts at another issue that it didn’t fix.
          I found a pretty good article on testing it. I’ll do that in the morning.




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            #6
            8v is low while cranking. Its a rarity but have seen where ECM getting such low volts at startup causes it to hit/crank over then stumble and die. If you are near a charger I'd throw the charger in it overnight. If it works like a charm in the morning Id say a battery is in order.

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              #7
              I replaced one of the batteries before the last time it was out, when it died. Other two tested good. Guess I’ll test them again anyway. I just don’t fit in those compartments very well.
              I keep it on a trickle charger. Batteries were almost 13. Reading battery voltage at coil and ignition module.
              it only hit 8 after trying to start several times.

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                #8
                Well im out of ideas lol.

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                  #9
                  I've had several ECM's that will crank and crank without firing if the voltage drops below 10V when cranking.
                  Check your engine ground for corrosion as well.

                  Like Mike said, weak spark from the coil is either low voltage to the coil, or a bad coil.
                  It's certainly not unheard of to get a bad new coil.
                  Check the resistance across the secondary winding of the coil. should be somewhere around 5-10kohms usually.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by sebenfitty View Post
                    I replaced one of the batteries before the last time it was out, when it died. Other two tested good. Guess I’ll test them again anyway. I just don’t fit in those compartments very well.
                    I keep it on a trickle charger. Batteries were almost 13. Reading battery voltage at coil and ignition module.
                    it only hit 8 after trying to start several times.
                    What was the coil voltage prior to cranking several times? Need to know there is sufficient voltage from the git-go.
                    Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

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                      #11
                      First few times dropped down to 10. Then 9. Then 8.
                      Batteries have been charging all night again. Gonna go put a tester on them.

                      Ohms looked good on coil from the specs I found. Going to test the crank sensor and harness in a few. The more reading I do, the more it sounds like it’s the issue.
                      The way it stumbles after I let off the key, it almost sounds like timing issue though. Just don’t see how that’s possible. Used it several times since it’s been put back together

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                        #12
                        If the battery voltage and the voltage at the coil drop that much after a few cranks, you have a battery battery or a bad main battery cable.

                        If the battery voltage stays solid after a few cranks, but the coil primary voltage drops to 10, then you've got a dirty connection between coil and where its 12V originates.

                        Have you measure the ground trigger on the other side of the coil? I this likely comes from the ignition module. This could be in the distributor, or internal of the ECM like many automotive ECMs.

                        Free might know, but what role does the crank sensor play on this engine, for primary ignition? I would think there is more of a cam position sensor thats generation the coil trigger as TDC come up for each cylinder. A crank senor will not do this, but does let the ECM know the engine is spinning. If the engine is not spinning, no need for for fuel or spark.
                        Mikes Liquid Audio: Knowledge Experience Customer Service you can trust-KICKER WetSounds ACME props FlyHigh Custom Ballast Clarion LiquidLumens LEDs Roswell Wave Deflector And More

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                          #13
                          Haven’t had time to get back to the shop this week to do any further checks.
                          I’ve read so much different information on what does what. I just have a hard time believing it’s the batteries. It just shut down while they were cruising, doing around 20 or so, and won’t start since.
                          After all the stuff I replaced that could have caused the no spark situation, I just don’t know what else to check. Can’t get my scan program loaded onto my computer to see if it will tell me anything, but I’ve had no alarms.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by chpthril View Post
                            Have you measure the ground trigger on the other side of the coil? I this likely comes from the ignition module. This could be in the distributor, or internal of the ECM like many automotive ECMs.

                            I believe this is on the ignition control module. I put the multimeter on it. Had 12v on two wires. Not sure how to test this thing properly.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                              #15
                              So...is it a 2 wire or 3 wire?? Either way the ground should be 0v if meter is properly grounded. You would have to have a meter with a LOW HOLD function while cranking to see if ground is being supplied. If you are seeing something like 3 or 4 v on the ground side thats also a bad ground.

                              Sorry about the low voltage guess earlier. Forgot you said it died on the water. Following both threads.

                              Mike, I don't know as much about PCMs strategy but AFAIK the CKP is looking for # 1 and providing tach signal. CKP is priority and with other brands Im used too CPS can be lost and still run. ECM just goes back to open loop and runs base timing. Im just guessing tho. We are technically still a PCM dealer from those years pre 12-13, but dont talk to those guys often.
                              Last edited by freeheel4life; 09-06-2020, 10:50 PM.

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