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    #31
    That fuel pump arrangement would make it easy to recirc right back into the tank. An overcapacity pump behind a regulator is the best way to maintain constant pressure in a variable demand system, it's almost guaranteed they're doing it that way. The single hose coming out will be downstream of the regulators so the pressure and supply are already controlled in the hose.

    Let's reason through the supercharger question. Unlike a turbocharger, a supercharger is locked to engine RPM due to its belt drive. But at any given RPM, the power demand (and thus fuel demand) can vary widely depending on engine load. It takes very little fuel to spin up an engine to (say) 3000 RPM if there's no load on it, yet that same 3000 RPM takes 10+ GPM when ballasted and generating a good surf wave. That 10+ GPM of fuel requires a proportional amount of airflow to keep the ratio at 14.7. Yet the RPM's, and therefore the speed of the supercharger, are the same. If the RPM's are the same but we're demanding far less work out of the engine then it needs less fuel.

    The injector pulse widths can narrow to handle the reduced fuel demand, but what about the air? The belt is still spinning the supercharger at the 3000 RPM rate, which means the supercharger is generating the same amount of air volume at 3000 engine RPM whether the engine is burning a little bit of fuel (no load) or 10 GPM (surfing). To maintain the ratio, that excess air has to be vented somewhere. It cannot be routed through the engine or the fuel mixture will be hyper-lean to the point of stalling.

    Based on this, it's virtually certain that some sort of waste gate exists.

    So after all that babble....Im still sticking to my guns purely on the engine side that more charged air(boost) is going to equal a longer injector pulse width to stay 14.7
    You're correct, but I think that's approaching it backwards. The controlling factor is "how much power do we need out of the engine?". Power comes from fuel. So power demand drives fuel demand, which in turn drives air demand to maintain 14.7. It's not a question of "we have too much air coming in, open up the injectors". It's "we need this much fuel to satisfy the power requirement, let in the right amount of air to maintain 14.7".

    If it went the other way - change the injector pulse widths to match airflow - then you would have a runaway condition on a lightly loaded engine. As RPM's increase, airflow (supercharger running at a fixed belt ratio) would increase, so fuel would have to increase, which would generate more power and thus raise RPM's even more, which would spin the supercharger faster and increase the airflow, and.... Without sufficient load on the engine the RPM's would go open loop.

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      #32
      Open loop.....RPM equal infinity, creating infinite power..... now we’re talking


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        #33
        Originally posted by IDBoating View Post
        The injector pulse widths can narrow to handle the reduced fuel demand, but what about the air? The belt is still spinning the supercharger at the 3000 RPM rate, which means the supercharger is generating the same amount of air volume at 3000 engine RPM whether the engine is burning a little bit of fuel (no load) or 10 GPM (surfing). To maintain the ratio, that excess air has to be vented somewhere. It cannot be routed through the engine or the fuel mixture will be hyper-lean to the point of stalling.
        Under no/little load the throttle body valve will close as much as needed, reducing air flow and putting the intake back into vacuum instead of boost. A blow off valve is only for over boost protection, as I understand it. It requires X amount boost in order to start opening the gate.
        I'd be curious to know what amount of boost it is set up for. My guess would a very small number, which would reduce the need for a wast gate.

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          #34
          Yes, a blow off valve (often known as a relief valve) is separate from a waste gate. A relief gate is generally either fully closed or fully open. A normal waste gate is an analog device that can be controlled smoothly from closed to open. One of my vehicles has a supercharged engine and you can see the ECU make decisions about how much boost air is needed from the supercharger by watching it operate the waste gate. Under normal acceleration and loads the gate stays open, allowing "waste" air to bypass the engine. Punch the throttle or give the engine a heavy load, and the ECU closes the waste gate to some degree to route the pressurized air into the throttle body. While under load, you can sort of control the waste gate yourself by varying the throttle... push a bit and the gate closes a little more, ease off and the gate opens to compensate. Meanwhile I'm certain the ECU is also varying the injector pulse widths to maintain the ratio. In this way the ECU has total control over what is happening - air AND fuel - and can optimize for power, efficiency, and (yes) emissions.

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            #35
            Sorry for dragging up an wold thread but thought I'd share since I had to swap a SC Raptor out and got a but closer look.

            I'm assuming the is the relief valve. Couldn't feel a line on the backside of it but some mechanical inkage coming off the back of it. Theres also a small nipple off it and a line running to the intake on the BACKSIDE of the throttle body. Wondering if its a diaphragm style valve or what. Guessing the small nipple just vents excess boost to atmosphere but just a guess, or the mechanical arm opens a valve internally to let air from the blower side recirculate into the intake. Seems like the small nipple would be for a vacuum line but...... Im due for my Indmar recert this winter. Will be asking Larry (assuming he doesn't retire).

            https://www.vmpperformance.com/Super...rgers-2.3L-TVS
            ^^sure looks exactly like this and says it will work on Rousch chargers
            Last edited by freeheel4life; 09-11-2020, 12:37 AM.

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              #36
              Man. What blew up an entire motor? Forget that water freezes ?

              Edit: Sorry, I know motors blow up. I meant a new SC raptor motor specifically. Seems like we aren’t in natural death age of that engine yet

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                #37
                Originally posted by BrentP View Post
                Man. What blew up an entire motor? Forget that water freezes ?

                Edit: Sorry, I know motors blow up. I meant a new SC raptor motor specifically. Seems like we aren’t in natural death age of that engine yet

                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                So....here's the fun part of warranty. Customer complaint was error code at screen "Misfire cyl #2". Brought it in, scanned it, hooked it up to the fake a lake, and it BLEW a cloud of oil at startup.

                Started digging and realized the K and N was soaked in oil and obviously oil was getting pushed out the intake. Called Indmar and emailed a Diacom recording and wanted to pull of the charger as I believe an oil seal on one of the screws failed.

                They want the engine back unmolested for failure analysis, so after jumping thru hoops to get it approved (Indmar has you collect a bunch of data before they just send an engine) they sent a complete new bobtail 575 (no trans or vdrive).

                Could have been fixed but thats the way Indmar wanted to handle it. Im fine with it, just takes too long IMO.


                Theres an older SE that was Parker Paynes boat that we picked up and have sold twice with a SC Raptor. Its over 500 hours and doing fine along with plenty of others. This would be an anomaly
                Attached Files
                Last edited by freeheel4life; 09-11-2020, 01:25 AM.

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                  #38
                  The boys in the shop were pleased with that scene. Also - don’t over oil a Kn filter. Got it


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                    #39
                    Lol. I had no idea it was going to blow that cloud. I moved it outside for the rest of my diag.

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                      #40
                      At least you're doing your part to control mosquitoes in the shop!

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by freeheel4life View Post
                        Sorry for dragging up an wold thread but thought I'd share since I had to swap a SC Raptor out and got a but closer look.

                        I'm assuming the is the relief valve. Couldn't feel a line on the backside of it but some mechanical inkage coming off the back of it. Theres also a small nipple off it and a line running to the intake on the BACKSIDE of the throttle body. Wondering if its a diaphragm style valve or what. Guessing the small nipple just vents excess boost to atmosphere but just a guess, or the mechanical arm opens a valve internally to let air from the blower side recirculate into the intake. Seems like the small nipple would be for a vacuum line but...... Im due for my Indmar recert this winter. Will be asking Larry (assuming he doesn't retire).

                        https://www.vmpperformance.com/Super...rgers-2.3L-TVS
                        ^^sure looks exactly like this and says it will work on Rousch chargers
                        You are correct. From Magnussons website:Bypass valve for fuel economy - horsepower without compromise
                        Maximizing your efficiency during cruising is the job of the supercharger’s integrated bypass valve. This vacuum operated system allows air to bypass the supercharger and the rotors to “free-spin" under light engine loads. During this situation the parasitic loss of the supercharger system is essentially negated taking less than one-third of a horsepower to turn the rotors. This bypass valve also allows your supercharged vehicle to maintain stock-like drivability and fuel economy - giving you a package that delivers power without compromise.

                        I'm guessing in a boat application its not likely to bypass very often as it would make sense the boat is generally creating enough load. It does work good on a vehicle when cruising down the highway.

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