Prestige Trailer Collapsed under a Tige 2200i

[Tequilasun]

I thought Undercut the small business man till they can afford to compete then hike the prices was his cornerstone, or at least his kid's.

[Tige M.D.]

sam walton, as in walmart and sams club? be careful what you wish for bringing up his buisiness sense. imagine how bad your service experience would be dealing with $8 an hour service personel? $8 per/hr and no benefits, now thats hiring the cream-of-the-crop.

the customer is not always right. unfortunately, they are wrong sometimes and they need to be called to the carpet on it. i had a customer come in a couple of years ago, he was a pissed off fire fighter, threatening lawsuit, chewing *** on everyone he could because he had a electrical short in his boat that almost caught fire. he had a "mechanic" friend look at it and confirmed that "we" and tige almost killed him and his loved ones. upon further inspection of the melted wire harness we could find only 1 problem. that 1 problem was a 300 amp alternator wired up to 3 batteries via a 10 gauge wire. none of which we installed or were told about. this quickly turned into a "not our problem" situation. so, is the customer always right? no! is there two sides to every story? yes!

everyone complains about high prices for everything. alot of those price hikes are for recuperating costs for frivolous claims.

[byron/prestige trailers]

I have read through this thread several times, trying to determine if my original posting was a good thing, or as Mr. Cheeky suggested....a not so good a thing. I appreciate the MDs' observations " a good company with good people trying to do a good job" and those that try to take advantage these honest efforts.

We have worked hard at creating and maintaining a reputation based on higher than expected service and support, that is recognized and appreciated by dealers like Robert Nelems and our retail customer base. We DO go the extra mile and DO the pleasingly unexpected, so when I was made aware of and read Brian Colliers' (aka, bcskypilot, from Indianapolis, IN) comments on this forum, I slipped into my Popeye mode. "I stands all I can stands, I can't stands no more!"

So I pondered....am I being baited or are there those who truly want to know, as Paul Harvey would say, "The rest of the story".

After lurking here yesterday, I decided, "Shoot the locks off and give them the facts". Then you will have all of the information to make the best informed decision. Besides, at the very least, it will make for some entertainment.

The facts as documented in our files. Mr. Brian Collier purchased his Prestige built trailer on July 10, 1998, not in 1999 as he claimed. His original complaint was received in August of 2003. (The fact that his trailer was 13 months past its' 4 year workmanship warranty period, did not come up in the original conversation, as our stance has been, if we created the concern, we'll take care of it. And we have on trailers that have been as much as 30 months past this period.) He wanted warranty consideration on his trailer, because his bunk support brackets ( a total of 16, made of 1/4" x 3" steel) had folded forward, causing undo contact between his boat and the trailers crossmembers.

I took the original call and asked if he knew how it happened. He said that a person was loading his boat onto the trailer and all of a sudden the brackets collapsed.

I relayed to Mr. Collier the fact that over the last 11 years, we had only seen this concern, once. In that situation, a friend of a boat owner had tried to powered load the boat owners' 353 Formula onto the trailers dry bunks, using, by his own definition, too much throttle and too much alcohol. His wasn't a complaint, but a request for an estimate to turn into his insurance company. He was also looking for an estimate on the baots' damage, and the damage to the taillgate and bed of his F-350,as that is where the boat came to rest.

Mr. Collier said that it was nothing like that...they backed the trailer into the water, the guy powered the boat on and the bunks collapsed. I asked if he was in the habit of using the loading instructions found in his warranty packet. He said "Religiously".

I point out that his trailers' bunk supports totaled 4" of solid steel and that the four forward brakcets were gussetted, because they received the most stress during loading.

Recognizing that this style of boat does not have the ability to trim the motor, forcing the stern down thus raising the bow, during retrieval, we designed and positioned the forward center bunks on our Tige`, Malibu, Correct Craft, ect trailers to provide support for the bow, to insure the centering of the boat in the loading process and act as a "V" block to stop the boats' forward momentum. They actually look like and inverted "V" with the point elevated to match the bows' deadrise.

Brian stated that those were not the bunks supports that folded, that it was the brackets towards the rear of the trailer. I asked him to charactorize the steepness of his ramp, shallow, steep, average depth.
He stated that it was average depth.

With all of this info so far, I want you to picture in your minds eye, the relationship of the trailer to the water level at an average ramp. The stern of the trailer is always under water, when launching or loading a boat. If the trailer was in the water, at anything in the neighborhood of the proper depth, the boats' stern will only contact the bunks when settling as the boat/trailer are pulled up the ramp.

I suggested the above stated observations and asked, when considering these facts, if he could give me some idea of how he thought the bunks could have folded down. Poor design was his answer. I reviewed with him, all of the information we had thus far developed and add that this design was predominate on as many as 42,000+ Prestige built trailers currently in use, with some 3300+ of them specifically design for this style of boat. His answer was the same.

Okay ! He is understandably frustrated...he is there, I am here. I asked if he could send me some digital images of his trailer, so that I could see his concern and determine the best way to assist him. He said he could and would, get these for me. (I never received these)
He asked if he could expect to receive warranty assistance. I told him that thus far we had as yet to determine the underlying cause that created his concern, but regardless we would be happy to assist him in correcting them.

He called back a short time later to see if we were going to help him and I asked if he had sent the pics.

Brian - No. He hadn't had time.

Byron - Okay, would we be able to pick the trailer up and bring it to our facility to review? (Walmart doesn't come to your house to retrieve a product that you are dissatisfied with or one that broke, they have you retrun it. Most all manufacturers' warrantys' require the item to be returned for consideration, at the owners expense. Ours reads likewise, but is rarely envoked)

Brian - No. The boat is sitting on it and it can't travel that way.

Byron - Okay, does your dealer have somewhere to sit your boat, so that we can pick it up?

Brian - No, I tell you what...I'll just turn it in to my insurance company, have them fix it and then, come after you guys.

Byron - I see...how would you like to see us address this issue?

Brian - Replace the trailer.

Byron -Okay, but without the ability to see the trailer and determine the root cause, how would you have us assist you without possibly re-creating the same concern??

Brian - I'll just turn it in to my insurance.

Byron - I understand. When the insurance company determines the cause, and if they find us at fault, please have them contact me, so that we too may know and not repeat the concern.


We are not perfect...never have been...never will be, so we try to learn from our mistakes, otherwise we are doomed to repeat them. And that creates a foundation on sand.

That was the last I heard from Mr. Collier, until the second failure, mid spring of this year.

The conversation is virtually the same, with what the film industry calls, "an optional second ending".

In the interim, Mr. Collier has had someone repair his boat and trailer, paid for by the insurance company. This time Mr. Collier offers to send pics, does so, but now I am looking at someone elses' work instead of my own. Again, how to determine if and what we may have originally done wrong. Kinda like looking at a "67" VW to determine how to repair the uphoistry of an Audi.

After some additional conversation, it is revealed that he has submitted this to the insurance company, again, and they want to wash their hands of this situation by offering to total the trailer out for $1500.00. BTW the first claim was paid out as a "Collision".

We again offer to pick the trailer up, with the hope of finding the root cause. Slim or None chance, but worth a try. Mr. Collier states that the insurance company will not pay to have it repaired again, even if we pick it up. He wants a new trailer and is willing to pay $1500.00. I do not have the ability to sell direct, so I offer to sell a new trailer to a dealer of his choice, for a substantial discount. A discount that gets him into the same neighborhood as that purchased by the above gentleman, but he declines.

If you were in his shoes, and you truly felt beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was a warranty issue, that has now plagued you more than once, and there was the odds on certainty that the next trailer would do the same thing, since the manufacturer hadn't had the opportunity to determine the cause ... would you want another one???

Since we wouldn't have any idea of what to change or that the underlying concern was even of our making, we haven't changed a thing in the design of this style trailer and had not experienced this concern before or since Mr. Collier.

[byron/prestige trailers]

And now you know the rest of the story.

Let's put this into perspective. You build a house where the roof comes together at a ridge, valley, and gabled fly rafter and the new owner experiences a leak, after THEY installed a weathervane on that gabled end. In your minds eye you see the peek of that gable within easy reaching distance of the valley. Your told that it took two people to install the weather vane and your told that one stradled the valley while doing so. You see the person steadying the weather vane during installation, standing with one foot in the valley, because they can't possibly straddle the valley and hold the weather vane at the same time. They cannot offer you any other way that they would approached this installation except to say that your work was obviously shoddy, thus creating the concern.

Since they will not allow you inspect the roof for the cause, do you put a whole new roof on the house, as per their demands?

I hope it is understood that I am not being aloof, or flippant in the above analogy, but I find in my job as VP of Customer Service & Warranty for my families corporation, it is important to put situations into perspectives that folks can relate to, based on their own ventures.

I appreciate your time and patience as I concisely tried to state the facts as they appear in our files, while at the same time trying to explain each fact so that this doesn't become a whizzing contest. Truthfully, I am ill equiped for that or a battle of wits. At this point, a little shock therapy would be a good diversion. NUUUUURRRRRRSSSSEEE !!!!!!! I NEED MY CRAYONS !!!

[Cheeky]

Bravo Byron.

Alot of detail, not sure if that was what I meant. But your first post was basically "there are two sides to the story, but I am not telling mine. " We know there are two sides, not telling looks suspicious(why even post that there is a second side but you are not telling it). Your second post does wonders for the character of your company and you personally. You managed to lay out the facts without slamming the guy, which I am sure is hard not to do at this point.

Personally, I would have loved to know what caused this, but it appears you have not been given the chance to see the trailer and diagnose the problem. Kinda hard to make a warranty claim if you can not even see any pictures.

You can bet I will make sure to dunk the trailer every time now, just in case....

Never been addressed as Mr. Cheeky, kinda like the ring that has.

[delongheavyhaul]

CUSTOMER IS IN THE WRONG!

SOUNDS TO ME THAT THE CUSTOMER IS IN THE WRONG. YOU WOULD THINK IF HE WANTED TO GET HIS TRAILER FIXED, OR GET HELP FIGURING OUT WHAT HAPPENED AND FIX IT, HE WOULD DO JUST ABOUT ANYTHING HE NEEDED TO GET THE DEALER WHAT HE NEEDED TO HELP HIM. IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO.

[raythompson]

Originally posted by byron/prestige trailers
Since we wouldn't have any idea of what to change or that the underlying concern was even of our making, we haven't changed a thing in the design of this style trailer and had not experienced this concern before or since Mr. Collier.

Excellent response and is what I wanted to see, the other side of the story.

You did offer to look at the trailer and make a determination of the problem. Since it was the rear supports that collapsed, and as you say there is very little lateral force on the rear supports when loading, it does not appear that it would be a trailer problem. The highest lateral loads would be on the front supports when the boat is typically out of the water and not supported by the water.

If this had happened to me, and you had offered to view the trailer, and I felt it was the trailer manufacturers fault, I certainly would have made every effort to get the trailer to the manufacturer so that I could some adjustment or consideration from the manufacturer.

I think that you bent over backwards as far as you can go and still be reasonable. You offered to look at the trailer and provide new at a significant discount to a dealer and if the dealer was where I purchased the boat I would also expect their profit margin to be significantly reduced. All this is predicated on the trailer truly being at fault.

It would seem to me that 350+/- HP pushing against water that gives (not solid), would not be enough to bend steel. If it were the prop shaft and engine/drive supports in the boat would be failing at high rates. After all, they are also steel.

For those that are out inspecting their Prestige trailers, well all trailers should be inspected completely every so often. That is how I found broken springs while still in the garage, and rotted bunks. I did miss the axle problem and I don't know that visual inspecting would have revealed the problem. But after 28 years and about 20K miles with a heavy boat on a single axle trailer, I was not dissappointed.

So thanks for coming back and providing an intelligent response.

[raythompson]

Prestige Trailers

I have been to the Prestige Trailers web site and read through many of the forum messages.

It is now my opinion that Prestige does indeed stand behind their products and I have been in error in my initial judgement and for that I apologize. Lesson learned.

The forums are actually an interesting read, especiall about the fella whose wife was pulling the trailer and it came loose, through no fault of Prestige I might add. It seems a wayward mechanic did not properly latch the trailer to the hitch ball.

It also appears that Prestige helps their trailer owners by offering replacement parts and valuable information. I think I would like to own a Prestige trailer and someday perhaps I will.

[Tige M.D.]

and there it is folks, the other side of the coin. good job byron, now lets here from the bcskypilot, this is more entertaining than prime time t.v. these days

[talltigeguy]

customer service

Nice response, but I don't get the nurse and crayon part, maybe I'm not reading it in the right tone of voice. I thought that you did very well and didn't throw any personal jabs until then. I think Bcskypilot has some explaining to do.


Wing nut - I think at some point you decide someone will never become happy and it's not worth trying extra to please them. You say business owners should do anything to make customers happy, but you turn around and say when your dealer fixes all of your issues, you will never go back. They've already botched your relationship beyond repair.

I'm having the dealer that sold my boat get it right if it kills me and then I'm gone and there will be no referalls from me.

[byron/prestige trailers]

Sorry ! That was a jab at myself. I spent from 5:45 am this morning until the time of the post at about 11:00 am CST, going back through notes and files to insure that the information I posted was dead on with no elaboration.

Being a family owned corporation, my three siblings and I wear many hats in the daily course of our business. I am not only VP of CS & Warranty, but also Director of HR, corporate compliance officer, charged with ensuring our adherence to USDOT, EPA, and OSHA guidelines, and Regional Director of Sales.

I answer virtually all emails received through our website, as well as most all postings on our forum. I also participate on this site, Crownlines' owners' forum, and TBM forum.

So between the interuptions that come from the supporting personnel for each of these responsibilities, I was beginning to wonder if I was ever going to coherently complete the post. My mind runs on a narrow guage and can jump track at every bend.

The folks on the Crownline owners' forum believe that I have multiple personalities and giggle at me when I start stuttering as I type. They think I have a mental hospice nurse at my elbow, just in case my train jumps the track.

So it is commonplace to hear me hollering for my NUUURRRSSSEE !

[poohpotta]

Byron,

It appears that you've went above and beyond the call of duty on this one. I agree with talltigeguy that bkskypilot has some more explaining to do on his part. I currently own a Dorsey trailer, I just hope that if I encounter any problems in the future with my Dorsey that they'll handle my issue(s) in the same manner. Sounds like you all run a top-notch organization, I'll be sure to consider Prestige in future boat trailer purchases.

[joe8395]

So it sounds to me like perhaps someone got a bit drunk one afternoon....attempted to load the boat at speed with the trailer 1/2 in and had a collision. What a thing that must have been to see.

I have an extreme a love it...sounds like prestige would be just as good a product maybe better with the customer service they appear to offer.

[Tequilasun]

Byron,

Rairly does one ask for the other side of the story on these forums and actually receive it.

I am glad to know that people like you are behind my Prestige trailer.


Thank you.

[Tequilasun]

Oh, and Rays right, I was out looking that trailer over from head to toe!!!

Reminder everyone, inspect those trailers!!!