2017 Z3 Surf Wave/Prop

[chasinsummer]

TO,

I know this has been discussed in many different forums, so I apologize in advance, but I'm having trouble getting the epic wave I see in other owners' pictures. I've read TO for hours and hours but am having trouble piecing all of the information from different threads and different time periods together. So here it goes:

I have a 2017 Z3 with Taps 3 and Surfl XL ballast (1100 each rear and 400 each bow sac) and an Acme 537 prop. I'm 6'5", 215lbs, and used to surf (in the ocean) before I moved. We're looking for what everyone wants - the longest, tallest, and firmest wave we can get with this boat.

After 67 hours put on it this season, I still haven't found the wave I'm looking for. I've even thrown in an extra 700lbs of sacs on the seats before, so I'm open to anything.

Also, I've heard there are better props for surfing, like the Acme 1235 etc. How much of an effect does the prop really have?

Thanks in advance!


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[JohnnieMo]

2017 Z3 Surf Wave/Prop

The prop is to ensure your boat can actually get to speed. If you're not having issues with torque then I don't think a prop change is needed. However I would still recommend a 1235 at least just to take some strain off your poor engine.

How are you filling that ballast of yours? What's speeds and settings? I'm not a TAPS3 guy but I know others will weigh in once you post those details.

[chpthril]

Depending on your engine and where you boat, there are likely even better props then the 1235. The right prop will improve hole shot, speed holding and reduce slip and cavitation.

As to the surf wave, you need to first make sure the TAPS-3 is working as it should. Next, fallow the post by TO member elevatedconcepts. He's got the TAPS-3 Z3 wave dialed.

[chasinsummer]

The prop is to ensure your boat can actually get to speed. If you're not having issues with torque then I don't think a prop change is needed. However I would still recommend a 1235 at least just to take some strain off your poor engine.

How are you filling that ballast of yours? What's speeds and settings? I'm not a TAPS3 guy but I know others will weigh in once you post those details.

Thanks. That makes sense. I mentioned the prop because when I've ran full ballast it has felt a little sluggish.

Honestly, I've tried everything for the ballast and Taps 3. My wife typically rides at 100% rears full and 55% fronts full taps at 5 taps 3 at 6 at 10.9 mph. Sometimes we will also throw an extra 350lb sac on the seats for her and it tends to give more push. The only thing is the wave isn't long and the height is okay.

I've tried the same settings but it's a really short wave lengthwise and I find myself riding pretty close to the platform. I've tried lengthening the wave by running front and back ballasts full and it does give me some length but the height suffers greatly and the engine is really working hard at these settings. I typically run this anywhere from 11.2-11.5 mph.

We also run a light crew. Typically three people and when I'm surfing there's about 300lbs of people on board.

We live in the Pacific Northwest at boat at about 2,200 ft elevation.



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[chasinsummer]

Depending on your engine and where you boat, there are likely even better props then the 1235. The right prop will improve hole shot, speed holding and reduce slip and cavitation.

As to the surf wave, you need to first make sure the TAPS-3 is working as it should. Next, fallow the post by TO member elevatedconcepts. He's got the TAPS-3 Z3 wave dialed.

Thanks! I'll check the threads for some more specific info from Elevated. He definitely has some good info.

On a side note, is there a specific prop you do recommend? We run at about 2,200 ft elevation and primarily surf. I'm looking to take some strain off the engine and possibly improve fuel economy. From what I've read, the evenly weighted boats tend to burn more fuel than listed boats.



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[lee]

How deep is your lake, we have some shallow areas at our lake and that will effect the wave for sure.

[Booms]

Depth is a big wave killer. I use to surf on a lake that was 8-16 feet deep. Anything 10 ft or shallower the wave disappears. The night that these pictures were taken we went from 36 ft to 6 ft of depth during a run. The surfer ended up falling do to lack of push.

We have a 2015 Z3 with TAPS3.

The settings that give me the best wave on the goofy side are -
100% full rear both sides
60% front
300# of lead wake in each corner. Arranged like this - 200# stacked up the back wall in the rear locker (sacs in front of the lead wake bags), 100# in the rear cooler, on both sides.
Once rear ballast bags are full I plug the holes with 1/2" plugs. This was an Elevated recommendation - this works well. I was noticing a lot of water draining out of the ballast bag drain and vent lines.

This all depends on the crew size - This night I had a driver (190#), Passenger (170#), passenger (100#) in the boat. Swim platform was a good 18-24" inches below the water level when not moving.
Speed 11.2-11.4
TAPS - 3
TAPS3 - 2

Fellow Tige Z3 Owner -
surf night 2 (2).jpg

Fellow Tige Z3 Owner with air and grab -
surf night 3 (2).jpg

[Sayonara]

This is where we start and usually don't change much:

2016 Z3 Taps 3, Surf-XL
Prop 2419
800lb of Leadwake Lead. 400lb laid flat, side by side (4 rows of 2) on each side from rear wall forward under the bags.
All ballast at 100%.
Speed 10.8-11.2.

On occasion, depending on crew size, we will run slightly lower ballast on the off-surf side.
We ride 2 Soucraft for the adults, Soulcraft, Lakewakes and Ronix for the kids depending on age and skill.

[CarFanatic]

Mike maybe tell him your pitch and roll readings. I think that helps the most.

[freeheel4life]

Up around 3,000ft the 2419 has been a great prop for us so far. Drastically outperforms the 537, and would suspect that your fuel bill will be better. Noticed a difference on the r21 I've spent a good amount of time in. Came with a 537 and ran it for a while for posterity sake. It would cavitate while dragging the occasional tube and drive me nuts. 2419 is night and day compared. Especially for smooth slow pulls out of the hole for new riders.
Making sure your taps 3 is working is key. Sounds like it tho, as from what I've seen wave never happens or starts to form but is very steep behind boat with lots of spray and never really forms up still.
May try running 70-80% up front and little more speed (11.2-11.4 to lengthen the pocket.) Doesn't sound like you have a push problem as you say you are riding your platform. Taps 3@2 Taps @3-4 has been pretty money for me. Definitely agree that pitch and roll numbers would be good to check. Elevatedconcepts definitely seems to know how to dial in a wave.

Agree with above that some lead under bags in rear lockers is huge. Been running 300lbs under each rear bag seems great to me, but everyone has their own magic #. To me enough weight while not overloading is nicer at the pump that running tons of lead, but I'm never really looking for that "unicorn" wave. Mid thigh, clean face, and plenty of push and I'm happy as a clam.

[chasinsummer]

This is where we start and usually don't change much:

2016 Z3 Taps 3, Surf-XL
Prop 2419
800lb of Leadwake Lead. 400lb laid flat, side by side (4 rows of 2) on each side from rear wall forward under the bags.
All ballast at 100%.
Speed 10.8-11.2.

On occasion, depending on crew size, we will run slightly lower ballast on the off-surf side.
We ride 2 Soucraft for the adults, Soulcraft, Lakewakes and Ronix for the kids depending on age and skill.

Thanks!


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[chasinsummer]

Up around 3,000ft the 2419 has been a great prop for us so far. Drastically outperforms the 537, and would suspect that your fuel bill will be better. Noticed a difference on the r21 I've spent a good amount of time in. Came with a 537 and ran it for a while for posterity sake. It would cavitate while dragging the occasional tube and drive me nuts. 2419 is night and day compared. Especially for smooth slow pulls out of the hole for new riders.
Making sure your taps 3 is working is key. Sounds like it tho, as from what I've seen wave never happens or starts to form but is very steep behind boat with lots of spray and never really forms up still.
May try running 70-80% up front and little more speed (11.2-11.4 to lengthen the pocket.) Doesn't sound like you have a push problem as you say you are riding your platform. Taps 3@2 Taps @3-4 has been pretty money for me. Definitely agree that pitch and roll numbers would be good to check. Elevatedconcepts definitely seems to know how to dial in a wave.

Agree with above that some lead under bags in rear lockers is huge. Been running 300lbs under each rear bag seems great to me, but everyone has their own magic #. To me enough weight while not overloading is nicer at the pump that running tons of lead, but I'm never really looking for that "unicorn" wave. Mid thigh, clean face, and plenty of push and I'm happy as a clam.

The 2419 sounds like a great improvement. I was out today working on some suggested settings and the 537 definitely struggles out of the hole.

I'd love to save money on fuel too. I'm right there with you on that. Thanks for info


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[chasinsummer]

Depth is a big wave killer. I use to surf on a lake that was 8-16 feet deep. Anything 10 ft or shallower the wave disappears. The night that these pictures were taken we went from 36 ft to 6 ft of depth during a run. The surfer ended up falling do to lack of push.

We have a 2015 Z3 with TAPS3.

The settings that give me the best wave on the goofy side are -
100% full rear both sides
60% front
300# of lead wake in each corner. Arranged like this - 200# stacked up the back wall in the rear locker (sacs in front of the lead wake bags), 100# in the rear cooler, on both sides.
Once rear ballast bags are full I plug the holes with 1/2" plugs. This was an Elevated recommendation - this works well. I was noticing a lot of water draining out of the ballast bag drain and vent lines.

This all depends on the crew size - This night I had a driver (190#), Passenger (170#), passenger (100#) in the boat. Swim platform was a good 18-24" inches below the water level when not moving.
Speed 11.2-11.4
TAPS - 3
TAPS3 - 2

Fellow Tige Z3 Owner -
[ATTACH]46639[/ATTACH]

Fellow Tige Z3 Owner with air and grab -
[ATTACH]46640[/ATTACH]

Thanks for the info. This might be a dumb question, but where do you plug your ballast to keep the water from coming out?

It sounds like lead makes a huge difference. I'm looking into getting some lead wake bags pretty soon.

I've noticed the same thing about depth. As soon as we drop under 20', we can feel a huge difference. The push disappears and the wave gets rough. We've started going to deeper parts of the lake and have had much better luck with that.


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[Germaine Marine]

I think we did a monster thread on this but I will go over everything really quick.

With the Z and stock weight, you arent going to run in the 70-100% bow weight area, it just wont surf. If running stock weight I wouldnt run anything more then 50%.

Now.. this boat needs weight to really hammer out something insane. It has the most 2 face personality in regards to weight then any other boat I have been in. It doesent top out either, keep adding more and it keeps getting better.

Boat setup is a 2 way street. What people keep forgetting is that this system gives you different ways to get to the same equation within reason. One way in my opinion is best but thats up for debate.

First things first. Weight it down. 400 a side to start and preferably 550-600lbs if you can stomach it. With that extra weight dont even try running a 1235, the boat will laugh at you. I had OJ tweak a 945 for me and now the German is running it. His surf RPM with monster weight is 2800... let that sink in a little, yeah 2800RPM and I think he is north of 3000K just in the rear alone....

Next thing is to shore up the passive draining......... and before you say "Mine doesent leak" just trust me and the rest of us Z owners when we say it does. You can call CHP and ask for some of his valves to run on the drain and vent lines..... I havent ran them, I just plugged mine with marine drain plugs... it was simple effective and easy since when I was filling bags I had to be back there anyway making sure the bag was filling square with all the lead... the valves are the better bet if they work.

Once the passive draining is figured and you have all the extra weight under the stock bags (400+lbs a side) its time to set the settings.

Rear Ballast full evenly and if not doing transfers, I like to run 70/30 or 60/40 in favor of the surd side....... bow weight . This is where some opinions differ about ballast and plate position.

If you run more deployed surf tab then in turn you are going to probably be running less bow weight, the surf plate being further deployed will push the bow over and in turn leverage the rear of the boat out of the water.

I tend to like the plate to do just enough without going backwards in regards to pushing the boat out of the water. I accomplished this by running a little more bow weight to sink the overall boat deeper and pull surf plate back out of the water a little which in turn made the total amount of ballast more usable. Everything working in harmony. The less surf plate gave me a little more height yet the bow weight allowed me to keep the length.

My settings

Taps 3 at 4
Taps 2 between 3-5 (Rider preference here)

Speed around 11.4-12.0. The faster you can go once the weight is correct the more firm the wave gets without losing much of its characteristics.

Hope this helps, I know I have missed thing but its late. Enjoy.

[Germaine Marine]

Here is a little photo of the lesser of the two sides. Goofy is better without a doubt.


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