First time wake surf setup advice for my 2000 21V

[2000 21V Riders Edition]

I've loved wake boarding behind my Tige for many years...however was introduced to wake surfing last summer and my knees, bride and kids want to surf more than board next summer. So we've got our first surf board & rope, all that's left is to figure out ballast.

I've measured my two rear lockers, and they are about 40" L X 24" W X 24" H.

As a beginner, I want to keep my ballast system fairly simple do it yourself job that has some flexibility and no drilling thru the hull. Perhaps after a few years we'll get to another level.

I also know of at least one family member that surf's goofy and two that are not, so I'm going to need to handle the side switches.

So what are your thoughts?

I've spent a couple days researching, and below is the best I could come up with.

- 3 straight line sumo max 650 bags. They are 40" L X 20" W X 20" H, so put one in each locker and one in the walkway to the bow.
- 1 straight line sumo max flow portable pump with 1 1/2" hose & connections
- 1 Ronix wake surf shaper

[jimidemo]

We run 2 fatsac's with Tsunami pump on top of one another that fill the entire locker. The bag on top is not full. Not sure how much weight that is. Not the best set up... but that's what we have for now. We have found that more people in the rear works better than more weight up front. We will usually have a couple kids go up front, maybe 125 lbs to clean up the goofy side wave. The regular foot side wave is easy to get dialed in and always nice. We start at 10.0mph for adults and usually TAPS at 7 then go from there. Kids will be slower. I'm not sure you need the third bag or the surf shaper to start with. Sounds like you are budget minded like us and we've been through two seasons with that set up. I will say I hope to automate our system with new bags/pumps next season. Enjoy!!

[Bryan]

I can't speak to the ballast setup needed for that boat.. But, if I were you, I would probably hold off on the $600 Ronix shaper for a little while.. There are a few guys here working a couple different surf gate/tab projects, and pending their results, you could get very similar/better results for less (or more) money

Cheaper idea:

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...rket-Surf-Gate

More expensive idea:

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...?24428-TAPS-21

I'm sure there are probably more too

[NICKYPOO]

A simple ballast set up is nothing to be scared of, especially with the knowledge and of this site. chpthril alone is probably the best resource on the planet, literally. We're lucky to have him in business. It seems that you've talked yourself into "simple" but for only a little more effort, you can do it once and be done forever. It's worth it. Drilling holes in boat really is no big deal. Go count all the holes that have been drilled in it already. A couple more ain't gonna hurt it at all.

I absolutely would never buy the Ronix wakeshaper. We have been wake surfing without them for 15+ years just fine. Spend that money on an FAE and see if some of these super simple and cheap devises work out.

[2000 21V Riders Edition]

Thanks for the quick replies, would like to read a few more, so let's hear from a few more of you, particularly the wake wizard, chpthril.

jimidemo: While I am cost conscious, I am willing to splurge a bit on this as it's great family fun and worth every penny...to a point. What I laid out above is slightly over $1k, which I'm cool with given it requires no added cost or effort. My TAPS system has not worked for a few years. I've got the pump unit in a shop right now being tested & fixed as needed. My guess is it hasn't been serviced in 16 years so needs it. I plan to get TAPS working again which should help in wake shaping and also general boating at high speeds (porpoising)

Bryan: Though I would love to hold off for a cheaper or better solution, I really don't want to hold off any longer than May. A priority for me is to very quickly switch from goofy to regular surfers, so there's no hesitation on "who's up next" no matter which side they like. It seems this Ronix wakeshaper is designed just for that priority...assuming it really works as advertised.

NICKYPOO: Curious about your FAE comment. Last summer when I was introduced to surfing, I went behind two neighbors boats (Malibu's). Later we grabbed their portable ballast and went behind my boat. My opinion was that the engine noise and exhaust smell was least noticeable behind my boat.

[NICKYPOO]

Carbon monoxide is the invisible killer. While you can't smell or see it, if you can smell any exhaust, you are breathing carbon monoxide. It's actually worse for the people in the boat. So basically, while you are surfing, you're simultaneously killing your family, nazi death camp style. While that's a bit extreme, I personally take it that serious. All my friends who have bought boats without one and then go out on my boat with one and then go back out on their boats without have ordered FAEs immediately after. Once you realize how bad it is, it's the best money you'll ever spend. I'll certainly never own a boat without one. There's also a reason manufacturers are putting them on from the factory.

[Bryan]

I'm assuming since you've been wakeboarding for years that you've already added a perfect pass/hydrophase cruise system??

[2000 21V Riders Edition]

No, just a steady hand, and a big to-do list. Did I mention I like beer?

[2000 21V Riders Edition]

Definitely an extreme example. I definitely heard of the carbon monoxide issue, however this is the first I've heard of a solution. Thanks, I'm on their website now and will probably order a 3 piece with quick release for my teak platform.

[Bryan]

I know what you mean about the steady hand.. That works pretty well for wakeboarding after a little practice, that's the way we've been doing it too. This year the wife and kids wanna start surfing so hydrophase is probably gonna be our first purchases for this spring. Somebody with more surf experience can chime in but when it comes to surfing, your speed control is gonna be a lot more important and when you start stacking a ton a ballast in your boat your probably gonna have to work the throttle constantly to stay consistent with your speed and keep from killing the wave... At least I know it took some work for me the one time we surfed last summer

FAE will also make your stereo louder..

[NICKYPOO]

Definitely an extreme example. I definitely heard of the carbon monoxide issue, however this is the first I've heard of a solution. Thanks, I'm on their website now and will probably order a 3 piece with quick release for my teak platform.

Money well spent.

[ericinmich]

I'm going to take the counter point on the FAE. My 22ve doesn't have one, surfed with it 2 years. Surfed for about 10 years behind my buddies 21v (or 2100... older V drive) and it doesn't have it. I've never noticed any exhaust smell, noise doesn't seem to be an issue. Surfed behind a friends Natique that had it. Didn't notice much difference. He raved about how great it was, maybe it mattered on his boat. Didn't seem to be an issue with the 2 Tige's I've been behind.

Don't mean to start a war, just giving my opinion.

[D&P Powell]

ericinmich - While I certainly respect your opinion, I would have to agree with Nickypoo on this. You run the risk, whether you smell exhaust or not. I have to believe more and more boats are being built with them for a reason. The new Malibu I saw recently at the L.A. Boat Show had a beautiful chrome one piece FAE behind it. My take - it's worth the cost for the piece of mind. Then again, it's my opinion, and we all know what opinions are like...

[NICKYPOO]

There's no war to start. It's already over and a winner declared. At this point, you're in a very small minority. That's certainly your choice no matter what anyone says. Personally, I've spent lots of time in a 22ve and found it absolutely terrible without an FAE. It wasn't all that bad surfing behind it but sitting in the back with someone surfing it was aweful.

[ericinmich]

D&P - One thing that impacts the CO is how rich and engine is running so that may make some folks experiences different than others.

With modern cars/trucks (say last 20 or more years) if the engine is running correctly the risk of CO poisoning is just about zero. If you ran a car in an enclosed space (garage) there is a better chance of dying of CO2 depletion (lack of O2) than from CO poisoning. Engines run at a lambda of 1 with slight perturbations rich and lean to "fill" the catalytic converter first with excess O2 (lean) then with slightly rich so the converter processes all the bad stuff. There is essentially no CO coming out of the tail pipe.

On to boat engines. Going way back they had carburetors and could easily be running rich enough to produce dangerous CO. Their controls were all open loop and crude, with error on the rich side for engine safety and power. More recently they added open loop fuel injection (this is what my boat uses). They still didn't run at a lambda of 1 (no O2 sensor) but they ran much more consistently. There was likely boat to boat variation but in general, unless at higher loads (power) they ran close to lambda of 1, not much CO produced. Next came engines with catalytic converters, some with switching O2 sensors, and now some with wide range O2 sensors. With switching sensors they likely ran almost all the time with a lambda of 1 and CO/HC/NOx being processed in the converter so no CO risk. Wide range O2 systems likely run about the same as switching, or they would trash the converters on the engines, so again not much risk.

Yes, there have been been engines that put out CO. I have not heard of any issues with modern engines (fuel injection and converters). Just like modern cars, unless they are running poorly, warning lights on yet driver keeps going, it just can't happen... IMO

As a derail, I spent 30 years in engine controls, SW/Cal/HW, which is really keeping me from upgrading boats. Something about a small block GM engine with simple open loop controls, vs. the major step up in complexity of a Ford 6.2 Raptor with catalytic converters and wide range O2 sensors.