Additional Ballast Dilemma

[Z3CO23]

I wanted to get some opinions on a couple options I was thinking about for my RZR.

Option #1.

Order the custom bags for the RZR and call it done. Simple and straight forward.

Problem with option 1: $500 per bag makes the wife unhappy and my life miserable :-)

Option #2:

Pick up a set of Fly High Pro X Side Sacs, the w703's. The easy addition is just to get a tsunami pump and I can just fill them separate from the Tige Tough. Easy solution but not nice and convenient. I would just butt them up against the 350 surf bag and extent it up the side storage lockers. Not optimal but it would work.

I've also thought about trying to integrate the bag into the 350 surf bag plumbing. The problem with this is the w703 only has 1 drain port. Does anyone know if I could just "T" both fill lines and only 1 of the drain lines for the 350 surf sac and combine the that way? If I went this route I know it would probably be better to put the new bags on their own lines and pump but I'm just seeing what would work.

Any opinions and options welcome.

Thanks!

Here's a link to the bags on wakemakers : http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-side-sacs.html

[chpthril]

Bobby,

Using the Fly High W004/W005 Tige surf sac as an example. There is a nearly 200 lb advantage over the two in just the rear locker. Thats almost 200 lbs more ballast as far back as possible. This is huge over a 260 lb sac in-front of the OEM 350 lb sac.

So, do you have an idea of how much more weight and its placement is needed to get the desired wake?

Next. Piggy-backing sacs that are on the same plane, is always problematic when its time to drain. The Side Sac is not going to gravity drain into the in-floor hard tank in the same manor that the OEM 350 surf sac does. I feel it will be left mostly full. The ideal solution would be to give it its own drain pump. But now you are adding cost and additional work. Filling would be easy, but slow. The OEM fill line is already Y'd, going to the in-floor and surf sac. Without some additional thought, im not sure what would be the best way to integrate that sac into the fill line.

[Z3CO23]

Mike,

Thanks for the quick response. I've been doing as much research on the internet about RZR owners ballasat setups as I can. As I'm sure you know RZR owners can sometimes have issues with a limited pocket size so I guess it scares me to load more weight in the port or starboard corner without putting more weight up front to go along with it. The waves i've seen look like they have great push and flow with the added rear weight but it looks like the added weight is creating a steep wall and shortening the pocket without adding to the 400 up front.

The only reason I was looking in the direction of the w703's is I have seen some RZR owners have had a good result with the extra 200-300 pounds running along the side without having the extra weight up front. Cost savings comes into it as well.

All in all your probably right. Upgrading to the custom sacs and throwing some extra weight up front is probably the best way to go.

[chpthril]

Adding that extra weight along side will most definitely improve the list, and because its on or forward of the fulcrum, will not offset the bow weight too much. So I agree that this could be an advantage unless additional bow weight is added. So if you are ok with filling and draining with a manual pump kit, then a pair of W703's will be an economical solution. Plumbing them in would be a cost of both time and money, that could go toward the larger W004/W005 sac and just not fill it completely full.

[EricU]

I wanted to get some opinions on a couple options I was thinking about for my RZR...Any opinions and options welcome.

Seems to me that you want the larger Enzo style bags, but it's hard to justify the extra capital investment. But a few things to think about;

1. You can always not fill the larger bags all the way
2. If the addition of the smaller bags does not give you the results that you want, and you end up buying the larger bags, that will cost even more.
3. You have a nice RZR, do you really want to mess with additional pump(s) not connected to your factory system

My suggestion, call Mike (Chpthril) and he can set you up,
and either wrap them up as your X-mas present or better, as your wife's!!! (My wife one X-mas got a full Whipple-charger and EFI setup that happened to fit my Schiada!)

[boardman74]

Another option is to take out the little triangle pieces of the black plastic at the front of the lockers(behind the corner seats). With those out standard 500's will fit in there. Thats really more than enough weight without the VX. We ran the big sacs last year in a demo R20 and it was to much weight without more front weight on non VX boats.

[Z3CO23]

If I had to choose between spending the money on the custom RZR sac's or paying the money to plumb in the W703's I would definitely go the route of the custom RZR sacs. The Tige Touch is so convenient that I wouldn't want to lose it. It definitely would be an added expense too. Buying the W703's and manually filling them and finding out it's not what I was looking for and then having to buy the custom bags anyway would be a bummer. Lots of good points!

I actually have thought about switching my RZR to the full pro system. I know the plumbing is already there and then I would just flash my Tige Touch to the pro software for filling. My only hesitation here is that I've read several places that the factory 400's wont even come close to filling in the bow of the RZR. Maybe they will with your suggestion about the plastic pieces in the front lockers??? I can't get in my boat right now to check it out cause it's shrink wrapped for the winter but I will certainly check it out when spring rolls around.

Ultimately I want to pick up the custom RZR sacs for the rear lockers and then do the front conversion to the 2 bags instead of the 1 triangle bag. We'll see how the budget develop's over the winter.

If anyone has any experience on a bow bag conversion on an RZR, feel free to chime in and throw out some suggestions. Always appreciated!

[boardman74]

The black pieces I was talking about are in the front end of the BACK lockers. The reason the Pro system isn't offered in the RZR is the bags will not fit. If you look with the 200's full up there, theres not much space left. Putting anything more up there is a waste of time and money as it won't fill. If you want more weight in the front its either people or exposed sacs. I can also tell you if you add front weight beyond the 400 you have to be super careful to not dunk the bow.

FYI you can add the 770's to the stock surf system, but they take a long time to fill and even longer(gravity) to drain. This is really only an issue if you need to switch sides. When I plumb my 2014 I am going to put "Y"s in and cross the rear pumps to the bags. So the port tank will fill from the port pump, but the port bag will fill from the starboard pump. I am also going to put a separate Tsunami 1200 on the bags for draining. That way I can fill and dump in 5-7 minutes or less. The 770's on the stock setup will take 15 minutes or more to drain.

[supremedevice]

Boardman are you saying the 770s (W004?) take a long time to fill because they are larger, or do they have smaller sac fittings that restrict the flow of water compared to the stock bags?

[chpthril]

Boardman are you saying the 770s (W004?) take a long time to fill because they are larger, or do they have smaller sac fittings that restrict the flow of water compared to the stock bags?

Due to the increase in volume, the fill and drain time will increase. The ID of the Fly High W743 male sac valve threaded fitting is a little smaller then the thru-hull style fitting Tige is now gluing in their sacs, but I do not see it having a huge impact in this application.

[boardman74]

Like Mike said size. You are talking almost twice the volume(770 sac vs the stock 350). Your going from filling 600 lbs per side to over a 1000. So your fill time is almost going to double. Because of the gravity effect on the drain I would guess drain times would nearly triple. I had a 930(Z-3 custom bag) I was filling and draining with a throw over 1200 Tsunami and that was 10 minutes plus. I'm guessing the 770 on a piggy back system(stock surf plumbing) is going to take 15 minutes plus to drain. No way will I drain mine thru the stock gravity drain system. They will have their own independent fill and empty circuits. Like I said above if your not switching side, no big deal. But we have one goofy footer and the rest regular, plus we go wake to surf and back.

[Z3CO23]

I do have regular and goofy riders that come out with me. Usually it's more regular than goofy but we occasionally do need to switch the setup from side to side. Ultimately the W004/W005 is what I want to go with but we will see how the budget develops over the winter. Fill/Drain time will certainly increase with the bigger bags but I don't really see new dedicated pumps for the bags in my future. It's gonna be a step at a time process for me.

Am I understanding correctly that I will have to get new quick connect fittings for the new backs?

[chpthril]

I do have regular and goofy riders that come out with me. Usually it's more regular than goofy but we occasionally do need to switch the setup from side to side. Ultimately the W004/W005 is what I want to go with but we will see how the budget develops over the winter. Fill/Drain time will certainly increase with the bigger bags but I don't really see new dedicated pumps for the bags in my future. It's gonna be a step at a time process for me.

Am I understanding correctly that I will have to get new quick connect fittings for the new backs?

Your 2011 should have be built with the W736/W742 .75" Fly High quick-connects fittings. The W736 might be glued into the sac, but can be removed and transferred to the sac. The W742 will remain in the hose.