2012 RZ2 Ballast advice

[cameroon66]

Sacs, a crossover pump, hardware to prevent passive draining etc.
I don't see a switch for the crossover pump below. Maybe included with the pump? I'll have to ask Mike.

1 FH-W507TIGE... Custom "L" Surf sac for 22Ve/RZ2 Tige, Port Side 560.00 560.00T
1 FH-W507TIGE... Custom "L" Surf sac 22Ve/RZ2 Tige, Starboard Side 560.00 560.00T
4 FH-W731 Wally Plug-Sac Valve Threads 3.12 12.48T
2 FH-W743 1" Quick Connect, Male - Sac Valve Threads (fits W746 & W741) 5.00 10.00T
2 FH-W746 1" Quick Connect Elbow, Female (for W743) 5.50 11.00T
1 FH-W610-P Pump, Reversible Ballast Puppy 200.00 200.00T
1 WTK-46239 10GA In-Line Fuse Holder 2.50 2.50T
12 FH-558031 1" Black Ballast Hose P/Ft 1.75 21.00T
4 LM-8830 3/4 Hose Adpt 2.75 11.00T
10 WTK-28501-19 Hose Clamp, Nylon p/ea 0.30 3.00T
6 WTK-28501-28 Hose Clamp, Nylon P/EA 0.25 1.50T
6 WTK-28501-32 Hose Clamp, Nylon p/ea 0.45 2.70T
40 FR-MDH75 .75" Coil Reinforced Ballast Hose Black P/Ft 1.40 56.00T
Shipping Includes all Shipping and Handling Charges: 2 boxes apx 50 lbs total 97.83 97.83

[chpthril]

Yes sir, switch is part of Jabsco's Ballast Puppy Pump kit.

[cameroon66]

Everything is in and working great now - with one small exception.

We seem to be dealing with a lot of passive draining. I didn't do the install and haven't spoken to the installer yet but I'm quite sure I asked Mike to include the hardware to slow or prevent that water loss.

Also - any recommendations about cleaning the wake? Should we be running the 400 lb U sac in the bow full? Off side empty?

We've been running at about 11 mph but I don't think we have the wave dialled yet.
Thanks for the input!

[chpthril]

Your kit included 40ft of .75 hose and 4 .75 hose barb adapters for crossing the drain and vent lines to the opposite side of the boat. In most cases, we see the passive draining from through the drain pump. This is because the aerator drain pump is a free flowing pump design, so water will pass right through it all the time. Once the sac is filled, its level is above the level of the drain through hull, so the water will naturally equalize. Crossing the hoses puts the thru-hull up hill from the sac.

In a few cases, we see some through the vents, but yours should have been rerouted along with the drain lines, and some through the fill line. In those cases, sometimes the fill line routing can be re-positioned and cure, in others, it takes an inline check-valve.

I would check the vent and drain line routing first. If those lines are crossed, then isolate the passive draining by closing the fill pump ball-valve after the sacs(s) is full. If the sacs stays full, you know the draining is occurring through the fill line.

[Ewok]

I added a one way check valve from my fill pumps to my surf sacs to prevent passive draining from the fill pumps and a crossover for the drain pumps prevents their passive draining as well. If you didn't do the install, and the installer didn't crossover the drain lines to the opposite side, a quick fix is to use a rubber stopper on the exterior of the drain thru-hulls to keep the water in the sacs.

[cameroon66]

Rubber stoppers sound like a good interim solution.

We're also having a hard time getting the goofy side as good as regular. On port we can run anywhere from 10.2 - 11.5 and the wave is beautiful. On goofy it sucks below 11 and it's often frothy.

I've been experimenting with some weight on the off side but that hasn't worked. Putting some ballast in the front on surf side only seems to help some as well but we are far from set on the goofy side.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[IDBoating]

Every boat is different, but our ours (24Ve) the normal (port) side is best at max ballast on aft port, a bit on aft starboard to lengthen out the sweet spot, and none up front. Goofy is completely different: Max ballast on aft starboard, absolutely zero on aft port, and a couple hundred pounds up front to clean up the wave. Then adjust TAPS for the best waveface.

Report back!

[kasey200]

I crossed my vents and drain lines and was still getting passive draining. The only place left for them to drain was the fill lines. I just finished putting check valves in the fill lines and will let you know how it worked. I hope to go out tonight.

In the mean time there are ball valves in the fill lines that you can manually close once the sacks are full. They are located right at the thru-hull fitting. The pump is actually attached to the ball valve. This will eliminate any passive draining through the fill lines.

[cameroon66]

Thanks for the advice! Interesting that what works for port doesn't necessarily work for starboard. We'll do some more playing around tomorrow and let you know.

Today we tried full front (400lbs for us) and the goofy wake got a little better. It's not near the regular yet but the froth is gone. I'll let you guys know.

[kasey200]

Well everything worked like a charm. No more draining. Sacs stayed plump the entire time we surfed!

[cameroon66]

It seems that our a portion of draining is happening through the crossover pump because the empty bag will be partially full and the surf side will no longer be full.

Is this possible?

[IDBoating]

It seems that our a portion of draining is happening through the crossover pump because the empty bag will be partially full and the surf side will no longer be full. Is this possible?

Not only possible, but likely if you are using aerator crossover pumps. During crossover pumping, the hose is filled with water. When you turn off the pump, you have a full hose connected to two water supplies of differing heights - a classic setup for syphoning. We saw this exact behavior when we first installed crossover pumps, and solved it by looping the crossover hoses up higher than the sacs they would be filling. While technically a syphon could still occur, in practice this has stopped it.

A definitive solution would be check valves in those two hoses, since the water need only flow one way in each. ChpThril sells some really nice check valves that would be perfect for this application.

EDIT: I see from ChpThril's response that you are using an impeller crossover pump, and I share his opinion that in that configuration passive draining through an impeller pump is unlikely. For those who use aerators, though, my comments still apply including the recommendation that you obtain check valves from ChpThril.

[chpthril]

It seems that our a portion of draining is happening through the crossover pump because the empty bag will be partially full and the surf side will no longer be full.

Is this possible?

In theory, no, as the impeller acts as a valve. It should not allow water to pass when the pump is off. Lets confirm that water is passing the impeller while the pump is off, then go from their. We may need to the swap the green nitrile impeller for the black. They have a little more friction and will resist turning under pressure.

[cameroon66]

Lots of trial and error has confirmed that water is travelling from the full side to the empty side when the pump is off. We have been running the crossover during pick ups to counteract this but it's a pain.

Is the impeller swap relatively straightforward Mike? How do we get one up here?

Thanks!

[chpthril]

Lots of trial and error has confirmed that water is travelling from the full side to the empty side when the pump is off. We have been running the crossover during pick ups to counteract this but it's a pain.

Is the impeller swap relatively straightforward Mike? How do we get one up here?

Thanks!

3 bronze screws and the impeller cover comes off. Slide the old one out, lube the inside of the housing and the tips of the new one with some silicone grease and slide it in. Re-install cover, test pump.

I can ship one out tomorrow, I just need to know which address to send to, yours?