Ballast install help

[Wakeman22]

I have read many posts here on ballast installs and am not sure of the best way to go. I have a 2007 24ve and want to have it automated. Of course....

Since some of you have done a few installed and have experience in different setups I would love to hear your advise. Specificaly on placement of the thru hull pick up and pump set ups. I am open to ideas. What worked best for you and what would you do different if you did it over.

I have a few bags now but hate having to fill and empty manually. I board and surf so I will probably go for the enzo sack as well as a bow sack.. If you are one who sells these items needed for the install PM me with a list of items to get me started and prices.

I am open to ideas and what you feel is the best way to go. Thanks.

[chpthril]

Specificaly on placement of the thru hull pick up and pump set ups. I am open to ideas. What worked best for you and what would you do different if you did it over

There are a lot of "right" ways, but each has its own challenges to overcome. 1st, you need to decide whether you you are going to roll with live-well aerator pumps or reversible impeller pumps. Each has their pros and cons and each has their own specific install considerations.

Some people like to mount their intakes in the transom. This works fine if you do not have the need to fill under way. For aerator pumps, my preferred method is to use individual thru-hulls for each pump. Its not the only way, but after doing both common manifold type systems and individual thru-hulls, I just like the individual thru-hulls better. It allows for better orientation of the pump in order to prevent air lock. In many boats, its much easier to locate 3-4 individual pumps then it is to find room for an 18" long 1.25" dia pipe with 4 pumps hanging off of it. Again, I say most boats.

For a self-priming impeller pump system, go with a common manifold.

For the bow, you can do a single bow sac that will hold about 550-600 lbs, or you can do a pair of sacs that will hold about 300+ lbs each.

For the rear, the Enzo is a great sac for a dedicated surfer, but is not ideal for wake-boarding. This sac hold about 1300 lbs. This is way too much weight to have a pair filled, plus enough bow weight to balance it, to have completely filled for boarding. The problem with filling them partially is the total length of the leg allows the water to slosh fore and aft as the boat gets on plain and then comes off plain. What sacs do you currently have? There's a god chance they could be utilized in your plumbed in system.

[Greg Mallek]

Wakeman; I have an '05 24V that is completely plumbed, and very easy. I have a "manifold" system with 4 Mayfair pumps on it. I think its the only way to go. Easy to access, and easy for maintainance if required.

[Wakeman22]

Mike I thought you would say something similar and I have thought a lot about this install. I am not sure if three opening would be what I want as that would be three holes in the bottom, three valves and all that down low in the bilge.

I like the idea of it in the transome however I may not like it as much should I decide to fill while underway. I have considered many of the options just still on the fence as to which way to go.

As for pumps I am still thinking that by the time I get multiple aerators for fill and empty that the ballast puppies may be the better choice. Pros and cons I guess.

I currentely have the strait line sacks that came with the boat. I have a big one for the v-drive and 2 for under the seats. I also have the wieght bags that I move around to get rid of the wash when I need to ballance out one side or the other. At the moment we do not run a lot of wieght while boarding as it seems the wake is good in a factory set up.

Greg what is your set up. Where is your manifold placed and how are the fill and dump pumps run? Do you have a post here with pics? I would be interested in your setup.

As a side question here. I have two pumps that attach to my bags. As you all know it is a PITA to hook up then remove and turn around to drain. Has anyone put a pump on each end of the hose so that it could just be hooked up once to fill and then plug the other pump in to the electric to drain? Will this work?

[chpthril]

Ive added some thoughts in RED

Mike I thought you would say something similar and I have thought a lot about this install. I am not sure if three opening would be what I want as that would be three holes in the bottom, three valves and all that down low in the bilge.
I did my ballast back in 08 using a common manifold. I had to go back and reorient the pumps due to some air lock. I did another Tige owners 22Ve with a common manifold. Since then, I have progresses toward the individual thru-hulls. I understand your concerns about multiple holes, but many manufacturers including Tige, now use this method. There is nothing wrong with a common manifold setup, just not my preference.

I like the idea of it in the transom however I may not like it as much should I decide to fill while underway. I have considered many of the options just still on the fence as to which way to go.

As for pumps I am still thinking that by the time I get multiple aerators for fill and empty that the ballast puppies may be the better choice. Pros and cons I guess.

Unless someone is really on a tight budget, then I let the install and objectives of the ballast dictate the type of pumps. I sell and install many of each type. Im currently doing a pair of impeller pumps in Thtrog's 2012 MXZ due to lack of room in the bilge. Neither is better then the other, its really about which is best for what your install. I would decide on the pump system first, then let the rest fall into place.

I currently have the strait line sacks that came with the boat. I have a big one for the v-drive and 2 for under the seats. I also have the weight bags that I move around to get rid of the wash when I need to balance out one side or the other. At the moment we do not run a lot of weight while boarding as it seems the wake is good in a factory set up.
Sounds like you have the old S/L sacs with the waterbed fittings, they are a pain to deal with, but there are ways to adapt them to an integrated system. If you main goal with the ballast is for surfing, which you will benefit from the added weight, then a pair of Enzo sacs will be the ticket in your 24V.

Greg what is your set up. Where is your manifold placed and how are the fill and dump pumps run? Do you have a post here with pics? I would be interested in your setup.

As a side question here. I have two pumps that attach to my bags. As you all know it is a PITA to hook up then remove and turn around to drain. Has anyone put a pump on each end of the hose so that it could just be hooked up once to fill and then plug the other pump in to the electric to drain? Will this work?

Ive seen someone here do that. It works, just a little slower.

[Wakeman22]

Thanks for more info. I have looked and read thru many more threads and have a few more questions.

Is it ok to tee into the raw water pick up or should I avoid this thought?

If I go with the intergrated bow sack and use a ballast puppy how do you set up the drain lines for each leg of the sack?

I am leaning towards the ballast puppy pumps and if I do go with them and one intake what size should I be looking at?

[chpthril]

Answers below in RED

Thanks for more info. I have looked and read thru many more threads and have a few more questions.

Is it ok to tee into the raw water pick up or should I avoid this thought?

Ive seen a couple people do this, but is seemed to starve the engine's raw water impeller if the ballast was being filled while the engine was running. personally, I would avoid it

If I go with the intergrated bow sack and use a ballast puppy how do you set up the drain lines for each leg of the sack?

With a check-valve in the vent line, the impeller pumps do a real good job at pulling most of the water out of both legs. The check-valve allows the sac raisin, thus squeezing the water towards the drain port. You may find that is does leave a little water, but no much. It is possible to "Y: the hose in the bilge before is comes up through the floor. This will allow you to run a fill/drain hose to each side of the sac.

I am leaning towards the ballast puppy pumps and if I do go with them and one intake what size should I be looking at?
For 3 pumps, I would do 1.25"

[duffymahoney]

Custom sacs are just a little more and you get a lot more weight. My customs are around 1800 pounds and the surf wave is amazing. I might sell them for less then new enzo sacs would be. I am going a different route with my fill holes. These fit a 24v perfectly.

[chpthril]

Your not going to get an 1800 Lb sac in an 07 24Ve without some major mods to the transom area behind the locker's rear wall and then cutting out the cooler in order to run the sac's leg up into the mid-ship storage. At this point, you are taking weight away from the stern and tipping the pendulum toward the front.

[Wakeman22]

I am planning on leaving the batteries on the port rear for now so that sack probably would not be an option. I do not use the cooler so taking it our would be ok. How far does an endo sack,s leg go up under the seat?

Would it be better to have a rear locker bag and connect it to another bag under the seat with a valve between the two? The thought here is that I could utilize the one for boarding and then open the valve and fill more for surfing and eliminate the sloshing effect of a partily filled enzo?

The tee in the raw water intake was a thought. I did consider that it was not the best idea as it robs some water from the engine. Is it a real problem at idle speads and a concern? Or is it a mistake to do, or just a caution to be careful? I am more worried about being able to reach a shut off valve when it is deep in the bilge. I have no access thru the rear seat but I guess I could cut and install one.

Now are you saying that with an integrated bow sack with an impellor style pump that one side fill and drain will work with a c/v in the vent? Or should I just plan on a Y and run under the floor? A sigle and raisining the sack sounds the easiest to install.

I am now working on a parts list for each style pump system and will get a better idea of which way to go based on cost. The cheapest is not necessarily the way I will go but then again funds are a concern. I do want to get better tower spaekers this year too. Glad to see there have been so much discussion in other threads about ballast installs. I am getting better imformed.

As someone else wrote. "Failing to prepare is preparing to fail"

[Greg Mallek]

Ill take a couple pics tomorrow for you.

[Wakeman22]

I will be looking forward to them. I am not familiar with Mayfair pumps. What are they and what are the specs?

[chpthril]

I will be looking forward to them. I am not familiar with Mayfair pumps. What are they and what are the specs?

I think Mayfair is now under the Johnson Marine which is made by SPX. Tige used the Mayfair as thier OEM pumps for a number of years. They used a 750 GPH and a 500 GPH.

[Wakeman22]

Thanks.

What are the Tsunami pumps rated that you use?

I hear there is one that has NPT threads that macke attachment to the manifold easier. What is the cost of them?

Your choice over the Johnson or Jabsco? And reasons?

[chpthril]

Thanks.

What are the Tsunami pumps rated that you use?

I hear there is one that has NPT threads that make attachment to the manifold easier. What is the cost of them?

Your choice over the Johnson or Jabsco? And reasons?

PM sent.

The Attwood Tsunami pumps come in a 800 GPH and a 1200 gph. I use a lot of the 800 GPH, but use Rule 1100 gph instead of the Tsunami 1200. The Rule 1100 is actually faster.

The Rule is 3/4" NPT, but Attwood has recently released a T1200 that also has 3/4" NPT.

I use the Jabsco Ballast Puppy because it comes with a switch, switch bezel and pre-wired switch connector. They say the Johnson impeller pumps are a little faster, but with a typical sac, it doesn't equate to a huge difference.